Engine won't start, just "clicks"

[fsd242]

Sent: 9/1/2003 4:58 PM

hi, i am having another problem getting my winnie to start...i have charged the bateries, which are connected in series. but all I get is a clicking noise from the solenoid in the battery compartment. I am in the process of tracing wires, and testing them for continuity. i was wondering.....should there be power prescent in the wiring harness of all the wires, while the ignition is on? or just on the red, blue, and black?.....it won't turn over or anything.....please help i have to move it soon.... when i turn the key to try and start it i get nothing....

[Colin]

Sent: 9/1/2003 5:17 PM
As to your batteries, are they 6 volt or 12 volt?  6 volt batteries should be connected in series.  12 volt batteries must be connected in parallel.  Which wires are you referring to?  What are they connected to? C.

[Boat Nut]

Sent: 9/1/2003 5:43 PM I trust that your batteries are not really in series unless they are 6 volt batteries. Two 12s in series would result in 24 volts, and spin the starter really fast. First of all you need a voltmeter to do some troubleshooting, and a helper to turn the key while you measure some voltages. Before the key is turned to start, you should hold the black meter lead on bare chassis metal, and with the red meter lead measure at one of the large wires on the starter solenoid (thing that clicks, when trying to start). One of these large wires comes from the battery and should read 12 volts all the time. When the key is turned and the solenoid clicks, you should be able to measure 12 volts on the other large post of the solenoid. If you don't see the 12 volts there the solenoid needs to be replaced. If you see the 12volts OK there the starter is probably bad. If you saw some voltage there, but less than 10 volts, you have a bad battery or bad cable connections. Bad batteries, and poor cable connections, are usually the cause. Believe me, more starters have been replaced needlessly, when bad batteries were really the problem. Good luck with it.Chuck

[fsd242]

Sent: 9/1/2003 6:41 PM
thanks for the reply, i replaced the batteries and connected them the way they were when i bought it.... ( series) um, the batteries....they have a four on them, i purchased them last year and they still should be good, and i bought a new starter, relay, and i am assuming they are still good....i did charge the batteries, but still nothing not even a turn on the starter...i have been doing continuity checks and only three wires are hot, while the ignition is on........ 

[denisondc]

Sent: 9/1/2003 7:07 PM

When the ignition is on there should be 12v present in some of the wires in the harness on your 72, and when the ignition is off there will be still be some wires carrying 12v â€" the big red one mostly. For instance, the fuse block has a section where there should be 12v all the time, for things like the headlamps, running lights, horn, brake lights. And a section where there will be 12v when the ignition switch is on, for the battery, turn signals, wipers. You can check those areas to see if you are getting power to the ignition switch. You mention a click in the battery compartment. On most of ours, as originally wired, there wasn’t anything in the battery compartment that needed to make a click for the starter to work. There should be 12v all the time coming to the larger terminal on the starting relay, mounted to the inside of the frame, next to the tranny on the drivers side. You lie underneath to see it. It is shown on page 8-84 of your service manual. The diagram on the top left of page 8-85 shows the starting relay and the fusible link for the 413 engines. This relay can die and prevent starting, and other things from working too. It is different from the solenoid on the starter motor, which is mounted right on the starter. The starting relay has a fusible link connected to it. That link is what takes the 12v from the battery to the rest of the electrical system. I believe there should be 12v on the fusible link all the time, since it feeds things like the fuses for the headlamps and flashers, as well as your ignition switch. As it was built there should be 12v all the time to the heavy wire going to your starter from the starting relay. Its called the starter relay not because it turns your starter motor on, but because it allows 12v to go to the solenoid on the starter â€"which makes the starter motor spin-, IF you have the ignition key in the start position, and the transmission is in neutral or park. That neutral/park/backup switch sticking out the drivers side of the tranny could also be bad, or just picky from age. Try wiggling the shift lever in park and in neutral while you have the key in the start position, also wiggling or cleaning the 3 wire plug for that neutral/park/backup switch. Even wiggle the wiring harness connector coming out of the steering column, in case it is dirty. And ignition switches can get cranky from sitting also.When the ignition is on, there should be 12v to one side of the ignition ballast resistor, located at the back of the engine. In fact, if the points are shut, the ballast resistor will get hot. In this case, unscrewing one of the wires to the two small terminals on the ignition coil, you should get a tiny spark when you connect or disconnect it. Otherwise you wouldn't be getting any spark to the distributor. This depends on the distributor being in a position where the points are shut though. denison

[Daved27c]

Sent: 9/1/2003 8:34 PM
You should also check the plug on the back of the ignition switch. Mine came loose but not all the way off, and caused the same problem on my 72 chieftain.

[fsd242]

Sent: 9/2/2003 2:09 AM

hi David, I ran a little check on my dodge caravan, I disconnected the ignition coil , and wasn't  able to start it but there was some signs of it possibly turning over, so I assuming that yes I may have a bad ignition coil, but that should only prevent it from turning over not completely dead. I will check the wires from the starter realay, and see if there is any life. also the ballast resistor did get pretty hot so I assuming, there is a problem in that area. I will run through it on tuesday, as to find out what the problem is....thanks for all your help....I feel like an idiot not knowing what is up with this thing.....my thoughts are the ignition switch is bad, and that I have some wires bad in the wiring harness. I got no reading at all from the fuse block where the ignition acc. fuse was.....keep your fingers crossed..lol, again I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help...   the batteries are two 6 volt batteries and are connected in series.....

[Beatty1950]

Sent: 9/7/2003 1:52 PM

When I first got my 1975 D19, I had similar problem with starting the 318 engine. Found my problem was a cracked bracket that connects the cable to the battery post.  I replaced all the battery cables for extra measure and now starts every time. Wish you well. Dave Beatty

[fsd242]

Sent: 9/7/2003 2:02 PM
Just an update......i was finally able to test the wiring harness, and i am now getting power to all of the wires with the exception of the orange wire...the start wire connected to the starter relay, ( located on the frame )  and ignition switch located on the steering column. I placed a jumper wire from the starter relay  to the wiring harness and am now getting power to all of the wires. But yet still it does not want to start. I am figuring it's a bad ignition switch. I tested ;  the starter, the relay, wiring harness, ballast resistor, voltage regulator, and the ignition coil. all register voltage but yet still no signs of life. Could the ignition switch on the steering column be the culprit?

[denisondc]

Sent: 9/7/2003 8:07 PM
When you say no signs of life, do you mean that the starter isnt making the engine turn over? Mopar ignition switches go bad like any other switch. They can be bought and installed, - the electrical switch part that the ignition key operates. You have to remove the steering wheel and other stuff in the column top. It would probably be the same switch for any 72 dodge truck, like the D200 or D300 pickups, and would have the same 8 pin connector, but with only 6 wires. Also, you can get the new mopar ignition switch and just connect it up to the existing mating connector, but outside of the column, and turn it with your fingers. And if the ballast resistor gets hot with the key in the -run- position, and the fuel gauges work, then you have 12volts to the ignition system, if not to the starter. Connecting a jumper to the wire underneath that makes the starter spin, and with the ignition switch in the run position, the engine should fire up and run. As always, be careful, since you would be bypassing the neutral - start switch.   

[fsd242]

Sent: 9/8/2003 6:00 AM


I mean nothing....I don't get any sounds at all......

[denisondc]

Sent: 9/8/2003 6:19 AM
Then it could be the ignition switchs -start- position. I suppose it could also be a damaged wire, between the steering column and ignition switch, and where that wire, pink or orange, makes it way back to the rear part of the engine on the drivers side. I replaced the orange wire in my harness, cause it was melted and looked scabrous, tho it was still working. Also I happened to get a spool of nice orange wire. denison

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Sent: 9/8/2003 6:49 AM


Ref: "I placed a jumper wire from the starter relay  to the wiring harness and am now getting power to all of the wires." Is the red 14 gauge witre (about 3-4" long" and may have a flag on it) from the starter relay big post (battery/starter) to the 10 gauge wire good?  That 14 gauge wire is a fusible link.  It is the primary power wire for the chassis.  When it goes, it means something in your rig is shorted out. Dave 

[fsd242]

Sent: 9/10/2003 1:11 AM

hi....the fusible link was actually corroded beyond any use.....I checked it and it on occasion would conduct electricity......the start system in essence is pretty simple, and it has to be something, in that area...on wednesday I get the new igniton switch, so I will see soon, I was checking underneath the dash and it appears there is a wire or two I may still need to check...thanks for the advice and you have been a tremendous help with the manuals.......

[melyash]

Sent: 10/28/2003 12:28 AM
I was going to suggest the obvious, do you have a seperate start battery burird somewhere on the rig? The coach batteries would not be doing you a bit of good if your start battery is dead. Sounds like the fuseable link is a good indicator though. Good luckMatt

[fsd242]

Sent: 10/29/2003 4:44 PM
hi, Matt...    thanks for the reply, I was able to get it started although intermittently. I think I have a problem with my selector valve. or the electric fuel pump or whatever...I am at a lost to the proper wiring of the selector valve though if you have any suggestions? I have moved on to a major restoration of my 1972 Chieftan Winnebago...as to date I am in the process of tearing out all of the old wood, metal, and anything else that is a vague reminder of the P/O neglect... If you have any suggestions it would be of great help.....I wish more of the club members were close by I could use the moral support.......I get the feeling people think I am nuts......I will be posting pictures although the sights aren't for the squemish......

[denisondc]

Sent: 10/29/2003 8:48 PM
No matter if people think you are nuts; you are in a group of people with the same dementia. Anyway, the picture of the skinner electric valve you posted is a fuel selector valve and solenoid. The right angle fitting on the top is one inlet. The two connections opposite each other on the base are the other input, and the output. On mine the output is the one facing forward. I have never had the thing apart, because I am sure it would leak forever after, but it might be clogged up inside or stuck, and not letting fuel through from either tank. Try bypassing it, or connecting a fuel line running from a 5 gallon can to the inlet of whatever fuel pump is connected to your carburetor. Another way to check that the fuel line isnt clogged is to blow into it, from the fuel filter back toward the tank, and have someone listen at each tank filler to hear the bubbles. An air hose works too, if you aren't fond of the flavor of gasoline. If you think that fuel valve isn’t switching from one tank to the other, make sure it has a clean ground connection.My â€"hunch- is that if you don’t have any juice going to the fuel selector valve, then it feeds from the main tank, the bigger of the two. denison   

[CCTVED]

After running the RV and couple 100 mile I will stop to fill up or snakes I jump back in hit the key and nothing just a small click if I keep moving key from stop to start and few times it will finally turn over any ideas[/size]Ed

[Mr. T]

Could be your starter solenoid has been baked from engine heat.  If you replace it, put a heat shield between the solenoid and the engine.

Don T.

[Rickf1985]

Could also be a dead spot on the armature where the brushes ride, New starter time.

[circleD]

I agree with the heat shield needed. I had the same issue with a good battery and connections. So I unhooked the battery and took all the wires off of the starter which were original and corroded. But I couldn't tell until I took all the wires off and cleaned them and had to replace a few. Started right up!! This is after it ran for 20 minutes. So between the connections and these heat monsters that should narrow it down. Good luck.

Either a new starter or a hammer tied to a rope to hit it when you turn the key :)rotflmao I would suggest a good cleaning of contacts, disassemble the starter and check visually,  then go from there. Its simple to do and very educational.  Hm? Oh yea, thanks OZ for moving this 

[Rickf1985]

Hammer on the starter used to be a good way to get one to work but no more. The magnets used to be made of iron and now they are made of ceramic/rare earth. One good tap and they break and then you know for sure what the problem is, whether that was the problem before or not.