Adding Dual fuel to 454

[Madathlon]

I have seen a few members who removed their dual fuel setups. but has anyone ever added it to a Chevy 454? and if so how hard was it?

[circleD]

Looking at my original 1984 manual and what HandyDan showed on his post it would be a matter of will an adequate tank fit safely and getting the parts. The air cleaner with hose on top is the key to vaporization. I believe a recall was issued a few years after mine stating that if there's a leak or something isnt right it could ignite and cause a massive fire. Man!! who would've thought that could happen right   But hey anything can be upgraded.

[bluebird]

Why would anyone want to do this now a days? The cost to do this the right way would be up there. Have you ever drove a vehicle that was propane powered? They are very sluggish, and fuel economy is terrible. The reason they were put on back in the day was because of the gas shortage. The system that was on my Itasca to me was an accident waiting to happen. It just dumped the propane thru an orifice into the air cleaner relying on the suction of the engine to draw the propane into the engine. If you had a backfire for any reason, would have caused an explosion, and fire. I would think the fuel should be introduced thru a plate below the carb, before it would be safe to use, certainly not how my old Itasca was.   

[Madathlon]

Yes I know there a loss in power and fuel economy, propane is still cheaper by the gallon then gas, its also cleaner burning and good for the engine. Also since my RV registered in California I would get a tax discount for dual fuel and a reduced reg fee at the end of the year.

There also the fact that it runs much cooler (Considering I have and do drive through areas that reach 120f+ at times) its helps keep that old big block cool.

I have also converted my 4.0 BFA genset to dual fuel also. There are many benefits to running propane.

So dont down me for asking. if you have something good to share, please do. if its something that you found wrong, please share. but if its because you don't like the idea, please move on to another thread.

[joev]

Well if anybody that has removed there duel fuel systems contacts Madathlon with the parts they have and give or sell them to him he could build a system that might work quite nicely Hm? always good to recycle

[HandyDan]

My parts are long gone.
Dan

[Ken]

I have run various propane systems over the years. My experience has been that the reason for poor performance is that in order to run dual fuel, both systems are compromised. You will not get proper performance out of either gas or propane. This is not an issue with some of the newer fuel injection systems where a separate program can be run for each but they are not without problems. My preference is a simple basic system such as Impco set up to run straight propane. I run that on a 440-1 and am very happy with it. I have known quite a few people who run a 454 on straight propane with excellent results. They tell me the large valves make them an ideal engine for propane.  The difference in cost between propane and gasoline in your area will determine the economics. Again, in my humble opinion, running straight propane makes sense. Dual fuel does not.

[Oz]

I can think of a few members in Europe who run on the propane system and at least one who added the system.  The reason is purely cost of fuel.  Gas is priced like liquid gold across the pond and propane is considerably less.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

I can think of at least one good reason to run dual fuel instead of a dedicated propane system, and that is the infrastructure here in the States.  Finding a place to fill your propane tank enroute on a long trip isn't always easy, so if you are running low on propane, with a dual fuel system you have the option of switching back to gasoline until you can find a propane dealer set up to fill an RV tank.

Highway travel isn't usually a problem, since Flying Js and Loves travel stops usually have the propane, as well as a lot of campgrounds and RV parks...but if you want to travel the back roads, dual fuel makes the most sense unless you have a massive propane holding tank.

Kev

[Ken]

I agree completely. I have 2 tanks on mine. I added a second tank which was a tandem set that off of a pickup. Set in with ease where old aux gas tank was and used same brackets. Straight propane allows the elimination of a conventional carburetor and remains my preference for performance. Filling is not a problem here in Canada as virtually every station sells propane. However you need to be aware of range when travelling in back country for sure. There is nothing wrong with dual fuel if that may be your preference.

[Ken1]

My 1986 Chieftan 454 is equipped with Duel fuel. I have only driven it home on gas and am getting it ready for the road in the spring. I was told the propane was not working. I have bean asking questions hear in Ontario and have concluded I should take the system off and run gas only.  Hear in Ontario auto propane is on the decline.  It dos not appear too difficult to add the system to your engine mainly adding a regulator, coolant hoses for the regulator, the apparatus which sits on top of the carbueretor, the required pressure hoses,and some electrical solenoid controls.

My main reasons for planing to remove the system are:

1.  The closest inspection sight is over 100 miles away and it is required yearly.
2.  some concerns regarding safety of the 30+ year old system.
3.  The opinions expressed that a duel fuel system is then running in one or the other. 4 The declining availablity of auto propane.   


The positives expressed were:

1.  Cost savings on propane
2.  A cleaner engine
3.  Having a gas backup. 

I am sill open to the idea however the cost and distance for the inspections is a definite disincentive. Following this posting with interest.     

     

[joev]

ken these guys are good and honest. had them re-valve propane tanks and re-certify 
http://www.bytownautopropane.ca/PropaneAndNaturalGas.html

[Ken1]

Thanks joev for the info on bytownautopropane.

[Madathlon]

Here in the states as far as I know of there no Propane inspection station for driving on propane. and there no such thing as Auto-Propane in the states either.

Propane is propane unless its butane and it will burn the same.

I like propane for many reasons. But I need to do duel fuel because there are times and places that will not fill a RV propane tank. Also its good to start on gas and get the engine warmed up in cold weather first then switch to propane once she all warm and happy.

What I love to find is someone removing a duel fuel system from a 440 or 454 because it should already be metered correctly for these big block.

every new system I have found has been for small blocks or TPI and that just wont work right on a carb 454.

[Oz]

Very good question about gas vs propane costs, Ken1.  I split that off with the replies and put it on the Topics for all Chassis board.

[Madathlon]

Now some information on why I want to have duel fuel over a dedicated system.

Flat land driving propane will perform as good at Gas. (Cruising) and yes there is a lower horse power rating when running propane so starts at lights will be slower, and there is a response lag. But friends we are driving RV's not sports cars.

But that loss in HP can be a problem when climbing mountains, this is where duel fuel can be an benefit.

Also in cold climate first starting on gas and letting your engine warm up first is a good way to keep from freezing you out of the RV.

Then there is the availability of fuel. Here on the west coast USA, propane is easy and cheap. And when doing trips I expect to used Propane 95% of the time.

It may not save me money in fuel cost (Gallon for Gallon it should be about the same) I save about $2 buying propane but with a 20% performance loss I should break even.

But what I will save in is engine wear and tear. And in over all maintenance cost in the long run.

And if I can get a used system from a member I will save a but load in over all installation cost.