Need Disc Brakes M400!

[LJ-TJ]

 i?? T.J.
I have been having a hell of a time finding brake disks for Barney. Have tried ordering 4 times and all have been wrong. Apparently the "Top Hat" on the ones I need is about 3/4 of an inch and everything I am getting is about 2". I found out today that the parts have been obsolete (Wagner) since at least 1993. I guess I will have to go on Classic site and see if anyone knows anything.
Forgot to mention, my chassis is an M400 and all the brake disks they have been sending appear to be for an M300. Even had some shipped from Nova Scotia that were the wrong ones.
I have the original factory part numbers now and finally found my VIN number

[Lefty]

I'd try contacting Allretta Truck Parts.

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

While it was several years ago, I got my M400 rotors from:
Merit Truck Parts & Wheel Company
1638 South Wabash Avenue
Chicago, Illinois, 60605
Phone: 312-427-3788; Fax: 312-427-3911

Kic P/N 666-13382  ($225 around 5-6 years ago)

Look at the information (specs) at the very bottom of this page: http://dave78chieftain.zxq.net/DodgeHdw.htm
Additional information is in the M400 section above it.

Arizona Salvage is the other place http://www.arizonarvsalvage.com/dodge.asp

KIC Mfg was the last place I knew of making them but is not a resailer.  If memory seves me, Merit is a KIC resailer.

Dave

[furnguy]

Alretta Truck Parts have none and don't anticipate getting any, since such a large number is needed to make them.

[Froggy1936]

It sounds like its time to engineer a new setup with available parts  Frank

[JDxeper]

Here is some additional information. 
http://www.kic-group.com/pdf/kiccat.pdf      on page 68 lists the rotor Dave referenced and a Kelsey Hays P/N 09168801 cross over. The specifications are also listed and may help track down parts.
From what I can tell from a web search O'Reilly's  is a dealer for KIC products .

lo and behold
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/search.oap?keyword=666-13382

http://www.finditparts.com/t/1251/manufacturer/kic/products/383484/kic-drums-666-13382

Of course another site with info
http://dave78chieftain.zxq.net/DodgeHdw.htm

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Thanks for listing the additional resources JD.  Finding alternatives is the reason I put all that information together.

Dave

[JDxeper]

I thought the $163.00 was a real deal>

[furnguy]

Well, still trying, but after a week and a half dozen calls to Find It Parts, it turns out they cannot get them. O' Reilly's cannot get them either. I have so far found one rotor in Arizona but I really need 2 of them as both mine are undersized.
Any more ideas appreciated- even wreckers where I might get one or two.

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

This may help.  Sometimes you have to take a different approach.  Dodge used the RM350 designation in 1974.  The 75 supplement renamed this to M400 and said it goes back to 74.  Anyway, some places like Centric brakes only list the 74 M350 chassis (no M400 info).  The centric P/N is 120.67011.  Here is a web site that says they have them in stock: http://www.autopartsnetwork.com/shop/Dodge_M350_Disc_Brake_Rotor_120-dot-67011-make_Dodge-model_M350-part_Disc_Brake_Rotor-brand_Centric-position_Front.html
There is also a boat load of the Centric number on EBAY
http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=1974+Dodge+M350&_sacat=33559&_dmpt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&_odkw=1977+Dodge+M350&_osacat=33559&bkBtn=&_trksid=p4506.m270.l1313

Looks like using the M350 number is a better approach in this case.  Most front and rear brake parts were the same from 74-77.  Difference came in the booster/MC portion when they went to Hydroboost.  Given that Centric only used the M350 designator there is a lot of hidden parts out there and the current suppliers do not have a clue about Dodge redesignating the model number.

Edit: Let me add that anyone looking for rotors needs to really read the details about any rotor your looking at.  The people on Ebay just want to sell parts and in some cases really do not know what the part fits.  While the AX5318 rotor says it's for a M350, it is actually for a M300.  Wagner BD60434 is listed for M350 but it is for a MB300 Van chassis and will not fit.

M400 (RM350) Specs:
Diameter 12.31"
Depth: 2.03"
Bolt Pattern: 8 bolts, 5.81" dia, .66" bolt hole
Used with a "Dual piston" caliper (D87 pads).

M300 (RM300) Specs
Diameter 12.82"
Depth: 2.97"
Bolt Pattern: 8 bolts, 6.5" dia, .6" bolt hole
Used with a "single piston" caliper (D86 pads).

Dave

[furnguy]

Dave;
The site shown above  http://dave78chieftain.zxq.net/DodgeHdw.htm -shows different specs for the M400 (RM350) rotors. That shows  12.24, ht. 2.966, hole 4.842 and bolt circle 6.5.
I am confused and the cost of shipping will be huge so I want to make sure they are the right ones. Any advice?
Thanks

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Good question and deserves an explanation.  First, I have a M400 and had to go through all this mess several years ago so I can talk to it from first hand experience.  I even rechecked my reciept for the rotor I purchased to confirm that I bought 13382.  Part of the information in the "M-400 (RM-350) 1973-up (Front Disc)" portion came from page 5-58 of the Dodge MH Service manual.  At the very bottom of that web page is the information I pulled from page 68 of the KIC Product Catalog (http://www.kic-group.com/pdf/kiccat.pdf). I found the KIC data through information that was originally posted at the Travco site.  Any way, you will notice that the diameter of the replacement is 12.31 where the Dodge manual says 12.24.  Not much different.  Please note that the rotor attaches to the hub with 8 seperate bolts not the wheel studs.  The bolt hole circle diameter (5.81") for those is different from the rim bolt hole diameter (6.5").  The rotor is not held on by the wheel studs.  BTW, I had to take my old one to a repair shop that had a 3/4 drive impact tool that had enough force to remove those 8 bolts.  Hub and rotor is heavy.

Height - Now I renember part of my confusion when I went through this. If you look at the KIC data (page 68 of http://www.kic-group.com/pdf/kiccat.pdf you will discover they swapped the Column B and C values.  There is no way total height "B" can be smaller than rotor edge width "C".  I have the correct information at the bottom of the page but inadvertantly forgot to update  the M300 information I copy and pasted into the M400 data column at the upper portion of the page.  Thanks for bringing that to my attention.   Also, each rotor mfg establishes his own specifications which is typcally a little different from stock data.

Anyway, the key for M400 (RM350), M500 (RM400), and M600 is at the very bottom of my web page.  I used the 13382 rotor on my M400.  I feel comfortable that the Centric 120.67011 version (http://cgi.ebay.com/CENTRIC-120-67011-Front-Brake-Rotor-Disc-?cmd=ViewItem&fits=Year%3A1974%7CMake%3ADodge%7CModel%3AM350&hash=item1c1fd02372&item=120792818546&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr) is equivalent to the KIC 13382 version.

The Centric P/N for the M300 is 120.67003 (http://extranet.soleniuminc.com/CentricParts/Inquiry/viewDetails.aspx?p=121.67003&a=506091&ic=1&i=1&).  As you can see, it has the 2.96/2.97 height value with a 12.82 diameter.

Dave

[furnguy]

Dave;
I have read your post through many times and I am still a little confused. You said the Centric 120.67011 version is equivalent to the KIC 13382 version. I note that the 120.67011 has a height of only 1.81 and the KIC was shown as 2.966, also the bolt circle is 5.82 and the KIC was 6.5.  The M300 disk has the right height but the tophat looks way too high. The Centric by appearances looks right, but the numbers seem wrong on the dimensions. Please excuse my lack of knowledge but I have never dealt with this heavy truck stuff before.
Thanks

[furnguy]

Well, that was dumb of me. After re-checking the KIC numbers and comparing them to the Centric, I found they are very close.
I guess I have too many small notes about them all over my desk and got confused.
I will order the CENTRIC 120.67011, as you correctly said they appear very close.
Thanks for all your help.

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Sorry I confused you with the error on my web page.  As I stated in my last post, I forgot to update the information in the M400 header when I copy/pasted the information into the cell from the M300 above it.  Combine that with the error in the KIC catalog and it does get to be frustrating.  I will fix my web page this weekend.

Part of the reason I went into an in depth discussion about all this was to bring out the fact that M400 parts information can be listed as M400 or M350.  Dodge created a mess with this and, as in this case, the aftermarket Mfg's may or may not have adopted to it.   Not limited to M400 either:
M300 = R300, RM300
M400 = R350, M350, RM350
M500 = R400, RM400

Dave

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

I fixed my web page.  Thanks for catching that.

Dave

[furnguy]

Dave;
I have ordered the disks from the link you gave me on Ebay. Thanks for taking the time to help me with this problem. I was running out of options until you stepped up to help.
Thanks again.

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Furnguy,
I think TJ is letting you be the guinea pig on this one.  We have not heard anything from him.

Dave

[furnguy]

Thanks to Dave! I ordered the Centric rotors that Dave gave me the link to and they fit on the M400 perfectly and they only cost $90 a piece with free shipping. I eventually heard back from Ed at Arizona RV Salvage and he found me 2 of them but the going price for the M400's is $265 each. The Find it Parts place told me my only option was to order 16 of them from China (@ $265 ea) and it would take at least 4 months to get them.
Needless to say I am very thankful for Dave's help- it is nice to know that the M400 is the same as the RM350.
So, to anyone needing rotors, the Centric ones fit.

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Thanks for the feedback.  We need that sort of confirmation too!

Dave

[cheavy1990]

Thanks guys i have been trying to figer this out for a couple days.Then i found this site.I am so glad for the info.Thanks for leaving this up.

[Oz]

For all the technical info you need on brakes, go here:

http://dave78chieftain.zxq.net/DodgeRBrake.html

Dave's place.  DaveVA78Chieftain - Dave Bailey,  our resident guru created this for detailed info!


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