440 Lifters rattle

vincewarde · June 19, 2013, 07:54 PM

Well, it's back together (valve train that is). I spun to motor with the starter and all appears to be well. BTW, only one bent pushrod, all the rest were good. I got off easy. Dumb mistake - could have been much worse.

RockwoodMike · June 19, 2013, 08:51 PM

Let me make sure of all of this..You were actually running the engine with the rockers upside down!?! Seems to me that you would have more than a ticking sound..
And did you straighten the bent rod or replace it??

bluebird · June 19, 2013, 10:51 PM

No, he never tried to run the engine that way.

Good to hear Vince. Did all the lifters pump up? Did you have to replace the pushrod? Hope all is well. Ya know that lifter noise you heard, could very well be an exhaust leak.

vincewarde · June 20, 2013, 01:55 PM

Quote from: bluebird5750 on June 19, 2013, 10:51 PM
No, he never tried to run the engine that way.

Good to hear Vince. Did all the lifters pump up? Did you have to replace the pushrod? Hope all is well. Ya know that lifter noise you heard, could very well be an exhaust leak.

Correct, while I was stupid enough to install things upside down, I was observant enough to catch my mistake before I ran the engine.

At this point I have just spun the engine and checked to see that all the valves are opening and closing. I got the manifold back from the machine shop yesterday (I had them remove a broken EGR stud) and will reinstall over the coming weekend. After I get the carb and EGR back on, I will be "re-plumbing" all the hoses. Not only are the hoses 35 years old, everything was badly mis-plumbed. After that we will try starting the engine and tuning the carb. I'm confident that the lifters will pump up.

Exhaust leaks? That's what we were hoping this noise was - but we finally got the manifolds to stay sealed using Nordlocks, so we are fairly confident that there are no more leaks.

MotorPro · June 20, 2013, 04:35 PM

I hope you put all the lifters back in the same bores. Cams and lifters wear to each other. Once they do they can not be moved or they will knock the lobe off the cam. You can put new lifters to a used cam but never.put a used lifter on anything but the lobe it wore into.

RockwoodMike · June 20, 2013, 05:00 PM

Here is another thing to check while the valve covers are off...Make sure that none of the springs are broken..sometimes it is hard to tell but look at each set of springs (2) for each piston when that piston is at top dead center of the compression stroke..Just take your distributor cap off and see which wire the rotor is pointing at and follow it to the cylinder..It will be very close to TDC for that cylinder. Now the springs of that cylinder will be as loose as they can be and not partially compressed..Try to push the valve and spring down with the palm of you hand..It should be very hard to get any movement..And look at each spring very carefully..a broken spring is not that odvious..

This is how a spring could get broken..before the rebuild, the springs for their whole life have been compressed millions of time at the same amount of distance while the engine is running..Now during the rebuild process, a valve spring compressor is used to take the valves out of the head..And they compress them beyond what the spring is used too..this could crack the spring or out right break it in two

If the springs were broken during the tear down, it would be apparent..But when the spring is being put back together with the rebuilt valve and head, it may not be caught because there is still spring pressure..

So this is the reason for the possible tick..As the piston is drawing down for the intake stroke, it could actually open the valve with the bum spring, especially the exhaust valve..and then when the piston is coming back up for the compression stroke, it slaps the valve close..making the tick..If it only opens it a few thousands of an inch, it will tick..

Engine just don't tick!! I can imagine some engineer that made your engine and he sees that his work ticks.."well that's the way I drew it up"..Yea right!!

If you can't find a broken spring, after it is running, hook up a vacuum gauge to it..If the needle is rock steady while the engine is running, no broken spring..If it twitches at about 2 or 3 lbs.at the same rate as the tick..you have a broken spring and you didn't find it..

ibdilbert01 · June 20, 2013, 08:47 PM

QuoteEngine just don't tick!! I can imagine some engineer that made your engine and he sees that his work ticks.."well that's the way I drew it up"..Yea right!!

hehehe, tell that to the i6 4.0 jeep owners.

A 4.0 not ticking, is a 4.0 not running.

ClydesdaleKevin · June 21, 2013, 09:15 AM

LOL!!! Exactly Dilbert! My 92 Wrangler only has 72K on it, and it ticks happily away. Not as loud as my Cherokee did with 300K on the engine...sounded like a diesel at that point...but still a happy little ticking sound.

Kev

legomybago · June 21, 2013, 11:01 AM

I've had the AMC 258 famous "tick" in the past...the cure is to replace the rocker arms. If i remember right...they have an aluminum insert under the hold down nut/or bolt. They wear out, cause a tick!! For you jeepers...

vincewarde · June 22, 2013, 02:08 AM

Quote from: MotorPro on June 20, 2013, 04:35 PM
I hope you put all the lifters back in the same bores. Cams and lifters wear to each other. Once they do they can not be moved or they will knock the lobe off the cam. You can put new lifters to a used cam but never.put a used lifter on anything but the lobe it wore into.

Absolutely - I put them in numbered bags and they all went back into the same bores.