my brakes are not good on first pump but ok on second

[Idahored]

Ever since I've owned my coach, (2 years) I've complained about the stopping power    I have a 1995 Itasca Passage 23RC. When stepping o the brake pedal, it's about like the brake shoes have oil on them, or if you can recall, the old mechanical brakes. But the second pump gives me the brakes I need. I've had the brakes checked by a commercial truck company, and they say the brakes are in good shape, that it's just the nature of the beast. I don't like having to step on the brake pedal twice to get the brakes I need, there must be a cause. Maybe the hydroboost ? Or ?
Idahored

[WrigleysBraveWin]

Same on my guy but maybe no as bad - I mean I can stop fine on first push but seem to have more braking power on second/third push .....

Even with our large 26,000 GVW International Dump Trucks, at work, same so maybe part of the beast but still does not seem right, maybe has something to do with power assist or bla bla bla - I try to keep a good distance behind other vehicles and anticipate things but quicker response would be nice ....

Will be curious to hear the experts weigh in on this Subject!

[Rickf1985]

Judging by the years of your vehicles I am going to assume they are disc brake front and rear. It sounds like something is pushing the caliper back in and that is usually a bad wheel bearing. Do you have a low pedal and then a higher pedal on the second push or the same height bot times? If same height both times it may be the pad composition and you may want to get different pads.

[WrigleysBraveWin]

Myself personally I'm not sure, going to have to drive again and keep notes - This maybe an old habit that's goes way back to my work truck driving days, I'm not really sure but will report back once I have better handle on it, thanks for asking!

[Rickf1985]

Sometimes people fall for the "High performance" deal and get stuff like ceramic brakes. Most of the times it is advertising hype and they are not really ceramic brakes but the words sell brake pads. Real ceramic brakes are pretty expensive but they are available and people do buy them only to find out that they have to STAND on the pedal until they heat up. They are made for racing and they do not work well until they get hot which is real quick at 150 mph on the brakes hard going into the turn. At 50 MPH stopping for a light............... not so much. Nowadays they make many different formulas for brake pads that make them in every type of aggressiveness you could want. But be careful how aggressive you go because there is a trade off. The more aggressive the harder on the rotors they are.

[FJR1300]

This may be unrelated but am going to throw it out there anyway. And will qualify it with a question..Does the braking system have a vacuum booster?,.As after my recent fuel filter replacement  that stabilized a fuel starving issue the brakes seem more "there". Was experiencing the same requirement to make sure i double pumped if someone was slowing in front quickly. Is this relative to intake Vac being more stable and not dropping off. Was pretty extreme pre filter change and was dropping to 10 in/hg/almost stalling.

Nevermind,. I see now the hydroboost thing,.sorry

Don

[skloon]

Air in the system, could need bleeding or a new master cylinder, bleeding is only the cost of fluid which should be changed every so often, I had the same issue with my 92 on a GMC chassis,

[kennyrodgers]

The brakes on my 94 P30 are exactly the same. First press and the pedal goes quite a long way down, second press and they're they are. I've fitted new flexi pipes and bled them twice....same as. As Rick said, I had a bit of a wobble at 45 mph so got the front wheels balanced. no more wobble but the brakes are exactly the same ?? 
Nature of the beast or something else entirely ?

[Rickf1985]

Make sure front wheel bearings are set right, rears also for that matter. If they move in or out at all they will push the pads back and cause a long first pedal push. Air will give a mushy feel and the same amount of pedal travel every time.

[WrigleysBraveWin]

Our BIG Trucks with Air Brakes were touchy and when you went from an Air Brake to the normal BIG Truck you would have to pump the normal trucks but when you went back to the Air Brakes you for sure could tell a difference. The Air Brakes Trucks were super touchy dudes!

Maybe just the beast as for sure all our work Trucks were 110% different than our pickup trucks or personal cars. On the BIG Trucks I'm talking International 1700 and 1800 series diesels / 26,000 GVW.

[Rickf1985]

Air brakes are usually S cams, totally different animal! No hydraulics involved.

[RickNC]

Brakes on the mid 90's Winnie and Itasca 23's are rear drum and not self adjusting. Likely the initial long pedal travel is due to rear brakes needing adjustment.

[rs72z]

My first thought was rear shoes needed adjusting if it has drum.

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Brakes on the mid 90's Winnie and Itasca 23's are rear drum and not self adjusting.

Not sure where you got that idea.  Items 20 - 23 are the adjuster assembly for the JB8 system (front disk/Rear Drum with hydroboost) on the P30 Class A chassis.  Item 12 is the auto adjustment lever.  Brake adjustments are automatic and are made during reverse brake applications. Something may be binding up and not allowing auto adjusting but rear drum brakes are auto adjusting.  For reference, even the G30 Van chassis used for a Class C RV uses the same system.

[RickNC]

Not sure where you got that idea.

Thanks for the correction Dave ! I got that from a parts fiche that didn't show the slack adjuster assembly. Good to know it has it. I have to get into my rear brakes in the next couple of weeks.

[TerryH]

Are you possibly confusing an air brake slack adjuster with a drum brake adjuster?

[rs72z]

Check the self adjusters, they will freeze up from lack of use.

[EldoradoBill]

You need a good firm reverse stop for the adjusters to do their job. Easy to check, though, the backing plate has removable plugs in line with the toe of each shoe so you can check shoe to drum gap.
Bill