Can lower radiator hose be replaced with flex hose?

[Winnielover4078]

Sent: 2/2/2006 11:28 PM

I am trying to locate a bottom radiator hose for our 72 brave 413. I have a spare flex hose in the trunk, but I assume that is for the top hose if it ever goes. Will a flex hose fit on the bottom? Both my top and bottom hose that I have now are the molded factory fit type but I'm sure they are getting old. I would also like some opinions on flex hose because I've always heard that they were crap. We are leaving for Quartzsite Az on saturday and I want to make sure I have all of my bases covered!!Thanks.....Kenny

[wcrowles]

Sent: 2/3/2006 8:01 PM


A flex (universal) hose is better than a rotted out OEM hose but if I were you I would take the original hose (or pieces left after removal) to a big auto  parts store and find a new molded rubber one that fits well.
Bill Rowles

[denisondc]

Sent: 2/3/2006 11:42 PM


The bottom radiator hose for the 413-1 in my 72 Winny I have gotten from an online seller of OEM mopar stuff, his email is dartman67-at-aol-dot-com. (But type the upper case 2 for the -at- and the period for the -dot-). Assuming he is still in business, he is Scott Vadnais, Mopart P&S, 7081 Aberdeen Curve, Woodbury MN 55125. It?s a suburb of St. Paul. I have always been pleased with the several things I have gotten from him, including a shifter cable, a handbrake cable, hoses, etc. His prices are Much better than the dealers, and he has all of the old parts books. I don?t have the manufacturers p.n. for that hose, but in the dodge motor home parts catalog it is 2959-568, and has an H0069001 stamped on it above the word mopar. It cost about $25 when I got my last two of them (I wanted a spare). I paid him with postal money orders. The top radiator hose has a mopar p.n. of 2959-567 by the way, and is the hose more likely to fail, as it runs hotter, and with higher pressure. A flex hose -if you found one that would fit at all-, would possibly be an acceptable emergency item. The problem with flex hoses is that they are under stress when fitted/bent in place, and they put a strain on the outlet neck of the radiator too. So the solder joint holding that outlet into the radiator bottom tank would be under stress.The OEM hose is a compound curve that has to run around under the belts, but above the oil filter. It is a snug fit. My worry is that a flex hose would be rubbing the belts for the fan/alt. It is also a fairly large diameter hose. I spent a long time at a truck parts outlet, going through their hoses - on shelves 20 ft wide and from floor to ceiling. I found a Dayco hose to replace the top radiator hose for my 413, but not the bottom hose. The closest I could come looked very similar, until I tried to install it. The end going onto the water pump inlet was too small, and its not in a good area for getting a forceful grip on the thing.The service manual for the motor home chassis says the 413 should be a 7 psi radiator cap. The top tank of that 413 radiator is fairly tall and will flex due to the pressure. Mine sprang a leak at the tank to core seam twice, until I stopped using 15 psi caps and put on a 7 psi cap instead. No more leaks up there. If you find a replacement hose that fits, please tell us the part number. I have the extra hose, and wont need a new one for about ten years - but I would like to know my sources. I replace both radiator hoses each time the radiator comes out - each ten years. At the same time I replace the water pump, alternator, fuel pump, the belts, the fan clutch, and maybe the high pressure hose from the power steering pump to the saginaw power steering unit. This is because it is SO Much easier to work on things when the radiator is out of the way. Then I have 10 years of peace of mind. I hope you know the correct sort of thermostat to use in your 413. If you go to www.summitracing.com and do a search for their part number MRG-4367, it will show you a picture. That skirted design is the best type of thermostat to use. Without the skirt it simply wont cool as well in the hot weather.http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/norm/rst-330-160_m.jpg is the url for the picture of the thermostat.And don?t forget to give the water pump zerk fitting a shot of grease each 2000 miles! Its right next to the distributor.

[another1bytesTHEduss]

Sent: 2/8/2006 1:39 AM


These lower hoses can be can be stubborn ,on my 413 ,72 Indian,once the clamp is loose the hose will still be very tight .It is best to remove both clamps,then pull on hose to slide off -try lubricant and gloves with grip this will help with skin scratch prevtion,also.
My hose was ok.Yes it would be difficult to find a perfect match.(did not see any serial numbers)It is black rubber with the inner steel coiled wire.
I would do a  radiator flush at this time since much fluid will drain down your arm and into your shirt. 

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Sent: 2/8/2006 9:48 AM


According to the Gates hose/belt Part locator site:
Lower hose P/N - 26531
Upper hose P/N - 26510


web address is http://www.gates.com/part_locator/index.cfm?location_id=3598


Gates only lists flexable hoses for the 413.  They carry molded and flexable hoses for the 440.  They also show the belts and PS hoses for both engines at that web site.


Dave

[denisondc]

Sent: 2/8/2006 5:52 PM


I made a tool to help remove radiator hoses. I took an old screwdriver that had a long blade but that was only 3/16" diameter, and with my acetylene torch to heat it, bent the tip back to an acute angle, (120°?) about 1-1/2 inches down from the tip. I use that 'hook' under the end of the rubber hose, to work it around and lift the hose free of its bond to the metal. In those cases where I can get hoses easily I just slice the side of the hose to remove it. But with the hard-to-find bottom hose for the 413-1, I even save the old ones!Yes you do get the final amount of dirty coolant pouring out when the hose comes free!

[Winnielover4078]

Sent: 2/8/2006 11:14 PM


for a minute there I got excited when I read the part #s for upper and lower hose until I scrolled down and read that the 413 only listed flex hose!! I will have to do some major investigating to find proper fit hoses. I agree with Dave that flex hose does put a strain on the radiator neck, I have seen these pop loose before. Vegas is a large city but I find most people here dont know much about trying to find parts for these old winnies. Napa is the only place that I have remotely had any luck with...Kenny

[another1bytesTHEduss]

Sent: 2/22/2006 8:42 PM


most of the parts stores i ve been to dont have them.only,flex.I have 3 more places to check,they are too short.

[WoodCoDogs]

Sent: 6/9/2008 9:58 AM


I too am wondering what the radiator hose numbers would be (for a 413 v8)...Especially the bottom hose number. After reading this thread about using the flex hose, and the possibility of it rubbing on other things, I don't think a flex hose would be right for me...But that is just my opinion.ThanksPat

[denisondc]

Sent: 6/9/2008 11:36 AM


For the bottom hose, my reply earlier in this thread had the part # H0069001, and the source I got it from. I dont think anyone has yet found another molde OEM type hose to replace it.The top hose is easier to get. To quote slantsixness from a posting in 2006; "And the listings for a 413--M-300/375/400 ......
26510 upper
26531 lower
Both numbers still show as available at NAPA, but not stocked. Good part numbers though.Tom "
However..... I believe these numbers will get you their line of 'flex' hoses. This would be fine for the upper hose, since it just makes a 90° bend in a length of maybe 18" or more.


For your engine rebuild, you should also have the Dodge motor home chassis parts catalog, not just for the part numbers, but for the exploded views as well. Napa at least might be able to cross reference the old 7 digit mopar numbers to the modern listings. You have probably already encountered the problem of auto parts places only having the 413 listings for the passenger car engines from the early to mid 60's, and not having listings for the 413-1 engines up through early 1972. An engine rebuild gasket set for the passenger car version of the 413 would have --at least-- the wrong head gaskets & the wrong water pump housing gaskets.I can imagine someday needing to make up my own replacement for that bottom hose; using two short pieces of 2-1/2" i.d. flex hose, and a fabricated connecting tube. The connecting item/tube would have to snake around under the fan belts and have an indent to allow the oil filter to be unscrewed. I would probably weld it up from chunks of 2-1/2" o.d. exhaust pipe, and could include a 'clean-out Tee' fitting, since that is at the Very Bottom of the cooling system. . I thought that someone had posted on this site a Dayco number for the upper radiator hose (molded OEM type) for the 413, but I didnt find it in my 5 minutes of searching. It would have been a couple of years ago. I got a Dayco hose for mine (upper) by pawing through the hoses a local truck parts place had hanging on their wall. It was longer, just had to be trimmed a couple of inches to be an exact fit.
Unfortunately that hose is on my Winnebago in Texas, and Im am in Virginia. The one on the Winnebago here in VA has no number on it. 

[WoodCoDogs]

Sent: 6/9/2008 3:35 PM


Thanks, Denisondc.  I must have missed your post on the hose numbers.  One other question (and I hope it's not too off base with this subject), but where do I get a Dodge motor home chassis parts catalog?  Napa auto parts?  Well I'm off to go finish draining all the fluid out of the radiator...Then have to pull it and take it down for a cleaning or recore...Oh What Fun this is!  (but I really do enjoy this type of thing...strange as it does sound for a female...hahaha).
Pat

[Slantsixness]

Sent: 6/25/2008 9:45 AM

two years later... and NAPA still carries these hoses.

26510 upper
26531 lower

No need for flex hoses, unless you have dash AC, then its either a custom hose altogether, or a flex hose.

It used to be, that you could get formed hoses made to order at commercial hose dealers... If I remember correctly, there was one in Springfield VA on Fullerton Road.. I think Dave D. might remember them.... it was like Fullerton Hydraulic? or something like that... it's been more than 20 years ago, but they made brake lines, hydraulic lines, hoses, crimped fittings etc... I know they made 2 radiator hoses for me that I modeled out of  coat hangers... and they did it while I waited (and I watched them do it!). Cool. Where are these places now?

Be careful at any Auto parts store that has something in the "warehouse"..This is what NAPA did to me (and I understand they didn't know this happened, and its unusual...).... They sold me a "new" hose that someone had evidently returned... well.. the other customer returned it because they had cut the end too short...I suppose NAPA gave the other customer a replacement hose, as they did for me, but I always wonder whether they would try to sell it again...or how many times they had sold the same shortened part?! 

ok... its just a hose... but it takes 25 minutes to get the #$%^*&@ thing off a 413...  I too, have a homemade tool for the lower hose. pretty similar to Dave's (a bent screwdriver) but it works!

[denisondc]

Sent: 6/25/2008 11:26 AM


And you will get coolant running into your face too! The last time I removed one I took off the oil filter first, so I could get a better grip on the hose.

[Froggy1936]

Sent: 6/26/2008 4:11 PM


As far as a tool for removing hoses goes, A cotter pin puller avaiailable from Sears or any tool truck will work extremly well Frank