318: What carb & batteries do I need?

[The_Handier_Man1]

From: Johnny_Philko  (Original Message)
Sent: 9/5/2005 10:52 AM

Hi all,

I'm new here and I just bought a 1973 Brave.

Right now the Winnie is an hour or more away from where I live. It has been sitting for 1~2 years.

After tinkering with it, I got it running and realized that the carb was shot from watching the gas pouring from it onto the engine.

So, I pulled the carb and came back to order a rebuilt one to take back and then drive it home.

This is where the problem comes in. The numbers on the carb aren't cross referenceable at any parts store. I don't have the vin number from the frame either.

I do know that it is a Dodge frame and engine. And the guys at the parts store tell me that the only engine that used a Carter carb was the 316, that the bigger engines used holley. So, I assume that it has a 316 engine.

One parts store says it looks like the carb from a 1973 Dodge B200 Van is the one I need, but there is no real way of confirming this that I know of yet.

So does anyone know what kind of rebuilt carb to order for this rv?

Also, it looks like I will need one or two batteries for it. Does anyone know what size or type of batteries to buy?

I don't want to make the 2.5 hour round trip to the rv, without having a good carb and batteries when I get there, so I can drive it home.

Thanks in advance,
Peace,
Mike
http://www.johnnyphilko.org



From: OldEdBrady
Sent: 9/5/2005 11:23 AM

With the carb, I can't be much help.  With the batteries, though...

For the engine, you would use just the type of battery you would get for the engine size.   As long as the alternator is good, it should last as long as in a car.

For the coach, you have two choices.  You can purchase an deep cycle RV/Marine battery.  Or, some on the site prefer setting up two 6-volt golf cart batteries in series.  I've read several posts on the site that state they prefer the second choice.  I would have tried it, but I bought the RV battery before I read the posts.

I do know that, going back to the carb, I read one post here some time back that said for many parts, you can tell the seller to think of a Wonder Bread truck.  When I go to Auto Zone, I always know exactly what I want, and I tell them it's an MB300.  They don't know what it is, but it's in the computer, so they usually can come up with what I need.



From: denison
Sent: 9/5/2005 2:10 PM

The engine size would be 318. And in the motorhomes Dodge used the 318-3, an industrial version of what was in the cars, pickups, and vans. Although the jets might be different for a carb set-up for the heavier motorhome chassis, the carb from any pickup or van would still work, and probably well enough that you would not need to change jets - ever. So the carb for a B200 would probably bolt right on. Just make sure the throttle linkage is compatible. There are guys on this board who know more about the Carters on the 318s than I do. I presume that carburetor is a 2 barrel? The larger engines had used Carters 4 barrel thermoquads and quadrajets, but by 73 they were all using 4 barrel Holleys I believe. .
The MB300 chassis was used under the minimotorhomes, and would have many driveline similarities. I like to joke that the B stood for "bent", as the chassis under the minimotorhomes usually arches up over the rear axle. The chassis on the Class A motorhomes was straight where it ran over the rear axle.
The only battery you would need to drive it home would be the one for the engine. The least expensive auto battery sold by Walmart would start that 318 easily, you dont need a big battery for the motor. The battery for the coach could wait.
I think you will want to buy some inline fuel filters, with the 5/16th ends I believe, the kind that you can see into, and find where the existing fuel filter is. There will very likely be some dirt coming up from the fuel tanks on a one hour drive. I would change the existing filter before I took it onto a main roadway.
The most important thing to check though - is your brakes. Dont depend on them to stop it - until you have checked the master cylinder level (a dirty job) and driven it around on side streets, then looked to see if there is any fluid running down the inner sidewalls of the tires! After that, leave yourself enough stopping room in case something in the brake system begins to leak big-time.
Good luck, and tell us the story when you have gotten it home.



From: Johnny_Philko
Sent: 9/5/2005 2:20 PM

Hi,

Speaking of brake master cylinders, do you know where it is located? I couldn't find it during a quck look for it.

Peace,
Mike
http://www.johnnyphilko.org



From: The_Pharaoh_Rulz_
Sent: 9/5/2005 2:30 PM

"With the carb, I can't be much help."  If it's typos you need "though..." I AM the man to see!

- OldEdBratty



From: OldEdBrady
Sent: 9/5/2005 6:20 PM

I have a '77 Brave, so your master may not be in the same spot as mine.  But mine is under the driver's seat, under the floor.  Mighty hard to get to, too.  I can get to it from behind the driver's side wheel, or become a total contortionist and do it from inside the coach.  Naturally, I use the first method, but it's still a tight squeeze.



From: Johnny_Philko
Sent: 9/6/2005 8:59 AM

I remember looking at the plate on the drivers side wall panel and making a mental note that the dodge frame was a year different than the title of the rv, so I assume it is a 72 Dodge drivetrain. The title says 73.

The carb does have a round electric choke on it with no tag, I assume that tag was removed. The only numbers that I could find on the body of the carb are 6-2078
and 0-2084, neither of which have done any good for me yet.

Napa has been closed all weekend, (when I have time off to work on it), so I have to wait until today to talk with them, but of course now I won't have time to work on it again until next weekend. :-)

I think the bowl vent is in the carb throat as it has a tube coming in from the front at a angle, gas started shooting out of it after running for a minute of two. I assume because the float it stuck and it started dumping the overflow into the carb, and then of course started leaking out of the gaskets. I think this is the bowl vent that you are talking about, I'm new to working with carbs.

I did find another casting number on the base, near the linkage of L-2109 or I-2109.

I will look forward to your response and will be going to Napa shortly to pick thier brain. I have to work 2nd shift, so I have to leave at 2:00 p.m.

Peace,
Mike
http://www.johnnyphilko.org



From: Johnny_Philko
Sent: 9/6/2005 10:10 AM

I called Napa and they told me $257.00 for a rebuilt
BBD-6225S and confirmed it goes on a 72 Dodge motorhome with a 318-3 with an electric choke and bowl vent tube in the carb throat. OUCH!!!

The napa part number they gave me is 2-363A but I couldn't confirm this number on the napaonline.com site

I'm going to go with the rebuild kit, if I can't find a rebuilt one cheaper.

Peace,
Mike
http://www.johnnyphilko.org



From: Oldbag373861
Sent: 9/6/2005 2:33 PM

I bought a brand new Holley 2-barrel carb for my '74 Brave w/ a 318 last year. I got it from Schucks Automotive and I believe it was $194.00 It fit beautifully, and with some standard adjustments, it runs beautifully two. I didn't hook the bi-metal choke back up to it, but connected a manual choke instead.
Steve



From: denison
Sent: 9/6/2005 3:28 PM

The site manager will tell me this is off topic for a carburetor message 'thread' - but I take the drivers side wheel off, in order to work on the master cylinder. I think yours would have the hydrovac boosters; mounted to the inside of the frame rail, behind the transmission. Those boosters will also have bleeder screws on them - and I would bleed them before I bled the wheel cylinders. You should be spraying or dripping penetrating oil onto all of the bleeder screws before you try doing the bleeding though.
I have sometimes had luck with getting the floats unstuck in a carburetor, by letting them soak in the fresh gasoline for a few days, then whacking the carb side with a light hammer blow. Its not something you do to an irreplaceable carburetor though.



From: Johnny_Philko
Sent: 9/9/2005 8:30 AM

Hi All,

I got the rebuild kit for a 6225S from Napa, and found an ex-race car builder to rebuild the carb for me. We discovered that the carb didn't have the accelerator pump shaft, but has a round one instead. The guy rebuilding it said that everything else fit ok, and that the accelerator pump was fine as is.

I'm still wondering what model the carb is. I'm hoping that it will run correctly. I will find out Sat morning as we are heading out to install it then.

Wish me luck! :-)

Peace,
Mike
http://www.johnnyphilko.org



From: Johnny_Philko
Sent: 9/10/2005 10:37 AM

Hi all,

That last message should have said that the carb didn't have a FLAT accelerator pump shaft, but has a round one instead.

Sorry,
Mike
http://www.johnnyphilko.org



From: Johnny_Philko
Sent: 9/12/2005 9:16 AM

Hi all,

First off, Thank you all for all of your help!

Someone asked me to tell the story of getting the Winnie home, so here it goes.

My friend an I took the rebuilt carb up Sat morning, we left at 10:00 a.m. and bolted it back on, she tried to fire up but kept backfiring through the carb and stalling the engine, so we decided to play with the distributor timing and a simple twist and lock down on the ditributor had her purring like a kitten! There is only 30,000 original miles on the whole Winnie. It runs good, smooth and no smoke! :-)

We decided that we better check out the brakes before putting it in gear, so we finally found the master cylinder and wrestled it open to find the the front cavity was empty while the back one was full, so we took off for a local gas station for brake fluid and wd-40! :-)

After filling the brake master cylinder and pumping up the brakes and finding no signs of leaking, we threw her in gear and drove around the side roads for a couple of blocks. It died on us twice for no apparent reason, but started right up again. We assumed that there was so little gas in the tank (5 gallons) and we were going up and down hills, that it might be running out of gas, so we headed to a local gas station and added 15 more gallons to the tank.

One thing that did take us by surprise is that traveling at 20 miles and hour on the back road the winnie was bouncing up and down a shaking violently. We decided that the Winnie had been sitting for 4 years (not 1 to 2 years) by the tags on it that had expired in 2001. We assumed that the tires had flat spots on them and would smooth out after getting warmed up on the highway. We added some air to 4 of the tires, the front two and two of the back tires, and then let the air out of the other two tires in the back.

The brakes weren't working as well as I would've like them to, so we decided to stay on interstates and turnpikes to avoid having to stop at redlights and stop signs ect.

So, we hit the interstate highway at a whopping 20 MPH as it was bouncing violently above 20. :-)

After a while on the highway, we opened it up to 30, then , 40, then 50 and then setteled in at 55 to 60 MPH for the rest of the ride. The RV did smooth out after cruising a while, but it was very scary for me! :-) I have never driven anything that large before! :-)

The rest of the trip was fine, just scary esp when semi's passed me and I was up near thier level! :-)

The only other thing that I have to look into is that the steering had more slop in it than I am used to. I seem to remember that a lot of older car designs did have some slop in the steering, but the newer ones don't.

The Winnie has about a 1/32 to a 1/16 turn at the steering wheel before the Winnie responds. Is this normal or do I need to check out all of the linkage and look for the slop and fix it? I'm sure I will adjust to it if it is required though.

So, things went much better than I thought that they would and I have the Winnie home in the driveway now. I plan on washing it and cleaning out the interior then start winterizing. Then I'll start going through things one at a time until it's ready for road trips! :-)

Does anyone have an owners manual on line that I could look at when needed?

Peace,
Mike
http://www.johnnyphilko.org



From: Johnny_Philko
Sent: 9/12/2005 9:28 AM

Yes, I'm Mike K.! :-)

Yep we plan on making the Winnie our official tour bus! :-) It will be a hoot! :-)

After getting eveything working, I plan on doing a special outrageous paint job on it with blue moons, stars, slogans and of the Johnny Philko logo and name all over it. When people see us going down the road they will definately be staring at it! :-)

I got a whole bunch of looks already, just driving it home and someone stopped and wanted to buy it before we got it out of the driveway! Others stopped and talked as we were fueling it up and adding air to the tires, and poeple smiled and waved as we went down the road. I drove it home from Akron Sat and got home with it around 6:30 pm. It was a scary ride! :-) It took two hours!

I was praying most of the ride home! LOL!

Are you from Ohio?

Peace,
Mike
http://www.johnnyphilko.org



From: Johnny_Philko
Sent: 9/12/2005 11:35 AM

As it stood, I called ahead on my cell phone and asked the wife to meet me in the driveway with a 6 pack of MGD!! I chugged a few as soon as I could get out of the Winnie and felt much better then!

The stereo isn't working, so I got to listen to ALL of the bangs and crashes of all of the stuff that was laying on shelves and not secured and all of the other strange noises!! Two wheel covers fell off of the table as I was cruising and I almost went through the roof!!! LOL!

Thanks for all of your help! :-)

Peace,
Mike
http://www.johnnyphilko



From: denison
Sent: 9/12/2005 11:48 AM

The steering should not be any more of an issue than when you are driving a sedan - albeit a large-wide-high sedan. Once you are used to its size; realize that the front wheel toe-in probably needs adjusted, the kingpings probably need greased, and the steering box probably needs to be adjusted for some bearing pre-load. I drive mine on trips of several days at a time, 500+ miles a day. Steering it is NOT a problem. The arthritis in my right knee makes itself known after a few hours. Filling the gasoline tank always involves some financial pain, and I get hungry and thirsty. I dont have any problem with my steering. If I move the rim of my steering wheel an inch, my Winny is travelling in a slightly different direction, but entirely predictable, linear, and repeatable. When an 18 wheelers zooms past me, I move the steering wheel perhaps 2 inches toward the passing truck and 2 inches the other way - and Im still in the same lane position I was in. And at the moderate speeds I drive, the semis are all passing me.



From: ClydesdaleKevin
Sent: 9/12/2005 8:57 PM

The best advice I can give you is to make sure your BRAKES are perfect!  Its the most important part of your rig.  Albeit, I didn't listen to the advice myself and got lucky, its good advice to listen to.  Check your brakes.  Check the shoes front and back...the backs are a beotch, so do a message search on how to check them.  Check all your lines and hoses, ESPECIALLY the front rubber hoses...they are cheap, easy to bleed, and are the weakest link in the system.  If it feels that you DON'T have power brakes, replace all of you vacumm hoses that go from your manifold, to the boosters (ugly dusty cans hanging on your frame, with brake lines going to and from them), and then to a filter up front.  The brakes are harder to apply than a modern car, but you shouldn't have to STAND on the brake pedal to get a response, or stop fast.  Your steering sounds normal, and its just something you have to get used to. 

Kev



From: denison
Sent: 9/13/2005 7:27 AM

Kevin: If you get a chance to drive my Winny or Sob's Winny around the block, and to let us drive your rig around the block, it would be interesting. After Sob drove my motorhome he immediately set to adjusting the steering box on the "pharaohs chariot". It took him about ten minutes. A good way to assess steering ease is to drive an RV that you are Not used to.
My Winny steering is as pleasant as my familys front wheel drive cars with rack-n-pinion steering.
Four years ago I bought an 87 Chevy conversion van, like Sob's, having 200k miles on it. The steering was slightly mushy, useable but not crisp. One of the first jobs I did was to correct the toe-in and the two adjustments in the steering box. Happiness!!



From: cooneytunes
Sent: 9/13/2005 10:46 PM

Check out the Holley web site for carbs...lots of info there.......As far as your steering.........It is somewhat normal for first time drivers of Winnebago's to get white knuckles....The play in your steering shouldn't be too much, and should drive like any van except a little bigger and heavier..... from the sound of yours, it may need a small steering box adjustment..very easy to do..great post on the proceedure on the message boards.....also when a tractor trailer passes you (on either side) it is very normal to feel like your going to be pushed off the road or into the the other lane.....the airo-dynamics of a Winnebago is...... ..............well.....................about the same as a Sear's Garden shed...so just hang on, steer gently towards him. You'll get used to that after awhile.....The only help I'v found for that are Air Bag spring helpers...you can get them at JC Whitney or Camping World about $500 for front and back with the air control mounted on the dash.  These will do wonders with that type of aero-push.....As Kev said, the brakes are the most important... tires are right up there with them.....don't fool around with your brakes...or tires.........if the tires are more than 6 years old get new ones...even if they have good tread......dry rot and 10K Lb plus vehicles don't mix and should never be used even in the same sentence.....get in touch with Geoff from Altretta Trucks if you have any brake or suspension questions or need brake parts.....He's the best in the business...Good luck with you Rig and keep up to speed on your progress of repairs and any Winnventures you may have..........and.............................................................
post some pictures................We love pictures......
Good luck .....Mike

Timmy



From: ClydesdaleKevin
Sent: 9/14/2005 11:45 PM

Dave,

I agree with you.  The "Ark" steers as a well as most older cars I've owned, and almost as good as most new cars I'ved owned...lol.  By the fractional increments he was noting, it sounded normal.

I've driven some HAIRY rigs, RVs, VW Buses, etc...A normal rig should steer normally...NOT like something from a nightmare.  I WOULD like to drive ALL of your rigs around the parking lot, however....lmao.

Kev



From: ClydesdaleKevin
Sent: 9/14/2005 11:58 PM

I have to agree with Cooney!!!

Tires are as important as brakes.  If they are more than 7 years old (Cooney says 6), then replace them!

No matter how good the rig runs, its running ON tires, and has to be STOPPED at lights.

Kev



From: MacD22C
Sent: 9/15/2005 5:42 PM

Hi,
  I just bought a new carb for my '72 D22C Chieftain with a 413 CID Dodge. I had already rebuilt the old Holley but it is worn out, shooting too much gas on driving away from a stop.  I got a 1411 Edelbrock; it is a 750 CFM carb with electric choke ($281 at JEGS.com plus the Chrysler adapter kit.  Note this is not a good carb for smogged vehicles, and my 1972 is just under the wire for California.
  Call the carb techs at Edelbrock for advise.  You need top know your engine size/displacement.

John



From: MacD22C
Sent: 9/15/2005 5:47 PM

Mike,
  My '72 D22C has slop in the Chrysler power steering too.  You can check the adjustment on the steering gear box, but don't get too tight.  I found the
'ol beast steers best with a light touch, don't grip the steering wheel to tightly.
John



From: Johnny_Philko
Sent: 9/17/2005 12:30 PM

Hi all,

You guys have been GREAT!!! Thanks for all of the help and tips!

I am planning oon working on mechanical things starting next spring. For now I am going to start getting her ready for winter and checking for leaks from the weather.

This might belong in another thread, but I was wondering if anyone knows where to get a gear shift knob??? Mine is missing and for some reason it really bugs me! :-)

The other question is since I'm getting ready to weatherize it, I would like to replace the fuzzy stuff and anything else that goes into the window assemblies. Is there any special tips or procedures for removing the sliding windows and replacing the stuff to make the operate properly and to seal out rain and air ect?

Thanks in advance,
Peace,
Mike
http://www.johnnyphilko.org