Adding golf cart batteries.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

So I found a pair of brand new Interstate golf cart batteries on craigslist not far from here, and I can't pass up the price.  Question though...is it better to just 86 my cheap walmart deepcycles, or, since I have the room, just keep them attached in the battery compartment with the golf cart batteries wired in as well?

In other words, do battery banks work as a whole, or are they only as good as the weakest batteries?  Should I just use the 2 golf cart batteries and add 2 more later, or use the other 2 batteries as well for now?  Will I get more juice out of the golf cart batteries alone for boondocking, or will the 12 volt deep cycles add to the power instead of weakening the golf cart batteries?

I'm guessing it would be best to just have the golf cart batteries, as the others would lose power way faster, and then drain down the golf cart batteries.  Is this correct?

Kev

[ibdilbert01]

Your not suppose to mix capacities as they won't charge correctly, and the undercharged ones will pull down the charged batteries.   For the same reason your not suppose to mix new sets with older sets, though I know people who do it with no complaints.

I've got golf cart interstate batteries in mine and am very pleased with how they have preformed.

[salplmb]

now I'm not a elec wiz but i think u would b able to keep the other batteries as a separate bank by installing one of those selector switches. u know the big red handle ones with the 1, 2, and disconnect.
then a isolator to charge like we have for the chassis and house batteries now? then u could use them as back up just in case or switch to what ever had the most power.
just a thought.
maybe I'm not thinking right and somebody who knows more could explain..
sal

[ClydesdaleKevin]

So I'm charging the new batteries this morning...well, not used but they sat for a year and the charge on each was down to 5.87 volts.  I topped the electrolyte off with distilled water, and the one I'm charging now seems to be taking and holding the charge.  That said, since we have been having great weekends at the Carolina Renfaire...maybe cuz we can take credit cards now...we've decided to go down to the Interstate Battery store...yep, there is one right down the road...and buy 2 more golf cart batteries so we'll have a bank of 4.  They don't make the exact same model number anymore, U2200UTL, but I'll make sure they are very similar in amp hours and whatnot.

If the core charge isn't too high, I'll donate my 12 volt deep cycles to anyone who needs them here in the campground.

With 4 deepcycle golf cart batteries, we should have lots of battery power for our boondocking adventures this winter.  Yay!!!

Kev

[ClydesdaleKevin]

50 dollar core charge, so the old batteries are going back today...but the Interstate Battery store gave me a good deal on the batteries, since I bought 2.  And they made sure they were the exact same capacity and whatnot as the other 2 golf cart batteries.  I'm going to use the core charge to get a new battery for the Jeep, since its on its last legs.

I went down to Tractor Supply Co and got all the cables I needed, and 2 feet of their rubber stall mat material...I figured it would be great to line the battery compartment with, since the p/o just threw down some really thin plywood and rubber sheet scraps instead.

After I put the new batteries in...after I finish my morning coffee...I'm going to run the old batteries back to the store, buy the new one for the Jeep and put it right in in thier parking lot, so I can get that core back, and then maybe pick up another battery charger...mine is pretty sad.

Then its back to the house, and I'm going to do more electrical work.  I have a couple marker lights out, a couple of tail light bulbs, and I really need to figure out while my headlights are so bloody dim!  I'm going to relocate the inverter...the p/o stuck it on the kitchen wall!...and then wire it to the plug we use for the TV...its the only thing we run off the inverter when we are boondocking.  If we have to run anything heavy, we fire up the genny.

I'm also going to run the antenna wire a bit differently, so its neater and so we won't see the cable.  Yep...today is electrical day.  Next Tuesday Nautilus gets an oil change and a tune-up.  I needed to skip a week of mechanical stuff after how hard the shear springs were to replace.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...coffee..........

Kev

[ClydesdaleKevin]

By the way...had I just went to the member resources section, went to electrical, and read the "12 Volt Side of Life", I wouldn't have had to ask the battery questions or made this post.  But its fun to post!

Kev

[ClydesdaleKevin]

The battery compartment is done!  The stall mat material is a perfect liner and really cleaned up the compartment, and the new batteries fit beautifully.  In fact, when we go solar next year, there is room in the compartment for 2 more golf cart batteries, for a total of 6, but I'll have to turn them all sideways to make them fit.  The solar panels are going to have to wait until next year, thus so can 2 more batteries.  We are going to go with a 4 panel setup laid flat on the roof, big panels, and they aren't cheap.  They are going to have to wait.

But the little panel we have on the AC shroud on the roof is charging away, and I got the inverter and all the wireing and rerouteing of wires done, and now we don't have ugly wires hangin down the kitchen wall.

I'm running out this morning to get the new headlights, Silverstars, and then install them and get back to building catatpults.

Kev

[ibdilbert01]

You'll be pleasantly surprised how well 4 good well maintained golf cart batteries will treat you!  I originally started out with 8, now I'm only using 4.   We're a bunch of power hogs, usually running our fridge, hot water heater, multiple laptops, TVs, cell booster and other random gadgets.   If it wasn't for the fridge, I could probably slim down to two and be just fine. 

However with 8, I could run the overhead AC over night, and still have enough charge left to make coffee and heat a tank of hot water.  But re-charging the 8 batteries during the next day was tough to pull off.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Thanks, Dilbert!  With big solar panels, I'll probably add 2 more, but for now, I'm sure these will do the trick for our winter boondocking adventures.  I doubt we'll be running the AC at all, since our main meandering route is to go to north Florida after thanksgiving for a few days, head down I-10 and stop in Louisiana at the Renfaire for a week or two, and then meander down I-10 all the way through Texas and New Mexico, and finally Arizona, staying at state parks and BLM lands and doing a lot of boondocking (and stopping at every silly tourist attraction we can find on the way!).  There is a lot of free camping lands out west...not so much in the east...and we have to be at the AZ Renfaire in February anyway.

I did go out and buy a new battery charger to keep the batteries well maintained.  My old one is a Shumacher, one of the big metal cased ones still made in the USA.  I replaced it with another Shumacher, even though the new ones are made in China.  Its a smart charger specifically made for marine and deep cycle batteries, though it will charge regular batteries as well.  It gives you a 15 amp, 10 amp, or 2 amp option, is fully automatic and microchip controlled, and even has a desulfation mode.  I went with this one because of the rapid charge ability, which golf cart batteries are fine with.  All the other smart chargers I found were usually trickle chargers, with the highest fast charge capacity being 7 amps, and that one was 170 bucks!  The Shumacher was 50 bucks.

Kev

[LJ-TJ]

So were's the pictures. Hm?

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

I have one of these 3-stage Black and Decker 40 amp - 110 amp engine start models: http://www.blackanddecker.com/power-tools/BC40EWB.aspx
Users Manual: http://www.baccusglobal.com/bd/manuals/BATTERY%20CHARGERS/BC40EWB%20MANUAL.pdf
Can be used on anything from a motor cycle to a deep cycle battery.
Alternator Test feature
Equalization capability
Automatic Float Charger (no seperate trickle charger needed)
12VDC only so you would have to charge 6 volt batteries in pairs.

You can pick them up for less than $100 shipped

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=black+decker+%28VEC1087CBD%2CVEC1093DBD%2CVEC1089ABD%2CVEC1086BBD%2CVEC1095ABD%2CBC40EWB%29&_trkparms=65%253A16%257C66%253A4%257C39%253A1&rt=nc&_sticky=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_sop=15&_sc=1

This ebay seller has been getting $60-70 (free shipping) for the 40 amp models like mine http://www.ebay.com/csc/ruggalleryinc/m.html?_nkw=BC40EWB&_sacat=0&LH_PrefLoc=0&LH_Complete=1&_odkw=&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3911.c0.m270.l1313


Black & Decker Battery Chargers: http://www.blackanddecker.com/allproducts/vehicle-maintenance-battery-chargers.aspx

Prior to buying this one, I had the VEC1095ABD model that lasted 15 years.  Originally sold under the name of Victor.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

LOL!  A whole BUNCH of pictures of all my recent projects are on thier way.  The only pictures of Nautilus that are posted here are from when we first bought her over a year ago.  Since then we've replaced the awning, put on a new ladder, modified the back bumper to use a Blue Ox hitch raiser thingy, replaced the entrance door window, recoated the roof, installed a fantastic fan and a new vent and fan in the bathroom, put on 2 MaxAir vent covers, and 2 MaxAir window louvers (makes it nice in the rain!), put on a new wingard TV antenna with a batwing for digital and HD, replaced the front AC, replaced the fridge, redid the battery banks, installed new shear springs, Patti made new curtains for the front of the rig, and is working on ones in the bedroom, we installed new linoleum in the kitchen and bathroom, new carpets everywhere else, replaced the brake pads front and back, and the list goes on and on.  We also repainted the front nose stripes, as they were so bad and shabby it made the whole rig look shabby.  So...yeah...a lot of pics are on the way...as soon as I have time to take them...very soon though...catapult making season is almost over, and its vacation time...woooohooooo!!!

Kev

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Alright.  So I'm going through my final checklist before we leave yesterday, and I decide to check out my new battery charger to make sure it works before we hit the road.  Hmmmm...the battery bank was only at 95% charge, even after being hooked up to the coach trickle charger and the solar panel for 2 weeks.  I throw them on a 15 amp charge, and 3 hours later she was still only at 95%. 

I put the used batteries at the front, so I removed them and called Interstate Battery down the road, and they said bring em in and they'll check them.  Turns out the jerk on Craigslist lied, because the stamping on the battery case indicates the batteries were made in January of 09, which means they sat, low on water on a concrete floor, for almost 3 years, not 1 like he said.  So the batteries were unable to take a full charge.  So we had to buy new ones.  The tech at the store assured me that since its only been 2 weeks, and they were only charging with the other batteries and not put under major loads, the new batteries from 2 weeks ago shouldn't have been affected or damaged at all by being hooked up to the old ones.

240 bucks later, I bring home 2 new batteries, the exact match to the 2 I bought 2 weeks ago, and install them.  I hook up the charger at 15 amps, and they went from 89% to 95% in just a half an hour, so I reduced the charge down to the recommended 10 amp for deep cycles, and left them on all night.  100% now...wooohoooo!

Yep, if I hadn't have checked the charger, I wouldn't have known the 2 used batteries were bad, and that would have been a pain in the butt boondocking!

Careful with used batteries on Craigslist!

Kev

[mackpeteno]

I know this post is a month old,but i will comment on your headlight problem.Which you probably have fixed.As a retired truck mechanic i have a lot of experience on headlights mounted in fiberglass.I have found that if you have orig wireing,you will save time by rewiring the complete circuit to the headlights.Making sure you have a good ground.
There is nothing like having GOOD headlights.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

The headlights work great now.  Thanks!

And the new batteries in all thier glory:



Of course, the converter was bad too, which I found out later, so it was replaced with a Powermax Boondocker 100 amp converter with a three stage charge system:



And I can monitor it all now from inside the house with this digital meter I installed a couple of days ago:



Its not a really good battery monitor, which is too expensive for my winter budget, but knowing the voltage at a glance while boondocking is the next best thing.

Kev

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Kevin,
Once you get to the point that you really want to get serious about solar then we need to have a long discussion.  Converter design is somewhat of a compromise to fit in with the general RV community.  Better known as consumer marketing.   Using solar for boondocking is a step up and for it to be effective requires a little different mindset.

Dave

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Thanks Dave!  When we do go solar, yours is the first brain I'll pick.  My only thoughts on the matter so far are that I'm going to need a lot of panels, since I'm going to lay them flat on the roof...not the ideal angle, but we don't usually have a choice about directions we park the rig at.  That being the case, laying them flat is the best option. 

A friend of mine, Gerry, uses a three panel setup, but his are not attached to the RV.  He carries them in a compartment and made an elaborate stand for them.  He places them on the ground, propped up with the stand at an angle, and moves them around to follow the sun.  He also has a wind turbine generator he sets up, on a big tall pole attached to the rear of his RV when he's parked.  He's a bit of an odd bird though.  He also makes cookers out of tin foil and sheet metal, and heats up his hotdogs and dutch ovens and whatnot with them.

Thanks again Dave!

Kev

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

He also makes cookers out of tin foil and sheet metal, and heats up his hotdogs and dutch ovens and whatnot with them

LOL - proper name is solar oven 

This is an informative (but very long) read if you can get past the "do it my way" attitude and chest beating.

http://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/the-rv-battery-charging-puzzle-2/

Focus on:
Voltage for recharge
Type and adjustability of charge controller
Wire size
Panel size and placement information.
Normal daily SOC operating range (drives charge times)
Cable run lengths and relative location of components

Do not get wrapped around the PWM vs MPPT controller stuff.  It is actually about the type of power supply control technology used undeneath the covers.  MPPT allows you to use a higher voltage solar cell array which runs at a lower current value.  However, the available watts generated by the array are still usable even though the amperage is lower.  You know, magical electronics stuff.

For reference, 3 stage charging methodology is a standard concept.  Differences are in voltage set points.  A converter/charger is designed to be usable by the vast majority of RV consumers (arrive at camp ground and plug into shore power) while at the same time insuring the consumer does not worry the charging feature will create problems with his batteries.   They dun down the device so the consumer has almost no problems.  Unfortunantly, that is not the most effective set up for a boondocker who wants fast recovery (limited sun time).

Dave

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Excellent article, Dave!  More stuff I didn't know...lol!  Seems Gerry might be right about a panel set-up you can move around...I just have no room to carry a setup like his.  I could engineer some panel holders that allow you to tilt them in any direction, but then there are the shadow problems. 

So, gonna have to get a much bigger external charger apparently before doing any really long boondocking next year, and it seems the charge controller putting out enough voltage is more critical than the number of solar panels or even thier location.  I have a lot of research to do!

I wonder if the bad Interstate batteries I bought off Craigslist were from that same bad lot the author mentioned...the date was even 2009, the date on the batteries that were bad. 

Kev

[johnnytugs1]

Kevin, couldn't you make a bank of solar panels that can be locked in place on the rigs roof or taken down and placed to follow the sun with a "display dish" kind of holder on a larger scale. does this make any sense to you?
JT.

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Good suggestion, Johnny.  I've got lots of time to plan it all out and finallize my ideas before implementing them.  This is a next year project.  First I'm going to invest a lot of time in researching everything, then my next major purchase is going to be to buy a really good programable battery usage monitor...that will let me know exactly how many watts of solar I will for they way we use power, and then I'll know how many panels I'll need, and how to arrange them.

Kev

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Another web site with Solar thoughts http://www.jackdanmayer.com/rv_electrical_and_solar.htm

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Thanks again Dave!  I've not only been reading the articles, I've been copying and pasteing them to Word documents for my computer files...in case they are ever taken down from the internet.  From everything I've been reading, even the Boondocker won't put out enough charging volts to fully charge the bank on genny power...since its maximum output is 14.6 volts, and the ideal is 14.8.  I'm not entirely sure if my external charger, Schumacher model XCS15, will charge them all the way, since its max output is 15 amps, and the manual doesn't even tell me what the max voltage output is on the charger.  I'm going to assume its around 14.6 as well, if that.  Looks like I might be in the market soon for a larger external charger that actually tells me what the max output volts are.  I guess everyone wants to err on the side of caution, even Powermax.  Hmmmmmm...   Hm?

Kev

[ClydesdaleKevin]

Alright.  I went to Shumacher's website, and they don't list voltage output either for the external charger.  So I emailed thier technical department, and hope to hear back from them soon.

However, since today is weekly charge-the-bank-fully day, I put the Shumacher on and set it at the 15 amp charge rate...and the voltage meter I installed the other day is now reading 15.3-15.8 volts, so apparently the external charger is indeed putting out more than the minimum 14.8 volts required to fully charge the battery bank.  Sweet!

Now lets see if it holds it there long enough, since its automatic.

Kev

[Moondowg]

I have a charger that will work for your application, it is used in the Railroad Industry for Stand by power, it is programmable anywhere from12 to 24 volts. I have 2 versions, one is capable of 40 amps and the other is 20 amps. Let me know if you are interested.

Thanks, Dave.