Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion

audioguyinMI · January 20, 2013, 04:43 PM

This looks like a good donor - do you guys agree?

http://desmoines.craigslist.org/pts/3527217175.html

LJ-TJ · January 20, 2013, 05:15 PM

WOW D:oH! That looks like a score for somebody. Problem is your not done the conversion yet so we don't know how it works...Hurry up will ya. It's just a little cool out.

Wantawinnie · January 20, 2013, 06:54 PM

The only bad thing about that donor is the 727 gear vendor setup will not give you enough of an overdrive with 4.56 gears. Something in the 3.73 range would work well though.

audioguyinMI · January 20, 2013, 07:09 PM

OH Right. See? I knew you'd done your homework on this. Being as I have a '74 M400 (RM350) chassis, I've got the same rear end gear, yes?

Wantawinnie · January 20, 2013, 07:20 PM

I would think you have 4.56 as well. I have 33.6" tall tires with the RM400 chassis and the 4.56 gearing is just to steep as the stock Cummins only revs to about 2200 before de-fueling.

Oz · January 21, 2013, 08:51 AM

Okay, never heard that term. What is "de-fueling"?

Wantawinnie · January 21, 2013, 11:25 AM

Here is a rather in depth write up on how it works. From my understanding, the governor on the injection pump limits the maximum rpm and in order to do that the pump is designed to start cutting back the fuel supplied a few hundred rpm prior to the max rpm. There are ways to modify to maximum rpm and de-fueling points by changing parts within the pump.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/articles/articles/44/1/VE-Governed-speeddefueling-function/Page1.html

It seems that somewhere around 1800rpm is the "sweet spot" for efficiency while driving. The Cummins will run all day long at the factory governor speed but a loss in mileage will result. I know from my Cummins trucks that anything over 2000rpm causes a quick drop in mpg.

If one were to use a 727 automatic gear vendor setup with a 0.78 overdrive ratio and 4.56 gears the rpm at 55mph would be around 2100rpm assuming some torque converter slippage and a 33.6" tall tire. At 60mph would it be close to 2300rpm and the sweet spot of 1800rpm would occur at around 45-50mph. With a smaller tire like a M400 would have it gets even worse.

With 3.73 rear gearing 55mph would be about 1700 rpm and 60mph would occur at about 1850rpm. That is why I recommended this ratio if using a 727 gear vendor setup. One other point, Dodge built a Cummins and non overdrive 727 truck for the first couple years. The rear gear ratio in those was 3.07 and utilized a specially built Dana 70 that, unfortunately, will not interchange with our rigs. They changed to the 4 speed overdrive with a 0.69 overdrive ratio in 1991 and went to 3.54 and optional 4.10 rear gearing. This is the transmission I am using in the conversion.

Wantawinnie · February 09, 2013, 09:28 PM

Quote from: Funrover on January 29, 2013, 01:38 PM
What a great conversion, that thing is going to drive like it never has!

Thanks! I hope it gets back on the road someday soon. D:oH!

Wantawinnie · February 09, 2013, 09:30 PM

A little more progress. Here is the welded up intake.

Bolted in place on the Cummins.

If you noticed in the previous picture I used a couple leftover shock sleeves to mount the throttle bracket using the original intake bolts. This was required to make up the height difference from removing the heater grid. The inside two holes just used standard metric bolts I bought at the hardware store.

Here are the completed intercooler tubes with silicone connectors and clamps installed. I ended up running a bead of weld around the ends of each pipe and then ground them down to keep the boots from blowing off. I also sprayed some high temp clear coat on the pipes to keep them looking nice.

Here are the brackets I made out of angle iron for the intercooler mounting.

Tack welded them to the factory crossbar with the intercooler mounted in it's final position. I removed the intercooler and finished welding the brackets in. This worked out pretty well as the crossbar is bolted in so it can be removed for repairs and won't require any more work to take out. I'll clean this area up and paint everything before putting it back together.

ClydesdaleKevin · February 09, 2013, 11:06 PM

I'm getting excited reading all this...hurry up, would ya? I wanna know how she performs in the real world...lol!

The work you have done so far is outstanding!

Kev

LJ-TJ · February 10, 2013, 10:48 AM

You wouldn't listen to me OH NO you got everybody sitting on the edge of their seats waiting with baited breath in panting antisapation of your completion. Every bodies all ready searching on Craigs list for the same parts just in case. Get ready to run and hide when you finish your successful transplant. These guys will drive you crazy when your done. :)rotflmao

vegas39 · February 12, 2013, 07:38 PM

I find this thread pretty exciting, as I wanted to do this years ago to our Brave. I sold the Brave in 08 and bought a few Ford trucks with the old 6.9 and 7.3 IDI diesels. We now have an 89 Southwind with a 454 and I am seriously thinking about dropping one of the 6.9 motors into it. I've learned a few tricks over the last few years on how to get quite a bit more HP out of that motor and of course a turbo kit helps a lot also.
Granted, the 6.9 wouldnt be near the motor a 5.9 is but either way, it's a super strong motor and at the end of the day, we would have a diesel conversion.
Congratulations to your conversion, you have taken on what the rest of us have only dreamed about for years.
I cant wait to hear a vid of that thing running!

Wantawinnie · February 13, 2013, 04:00 PM

Thanks, I would like to see someone do a 6.9/7.3 conversion. I've had some experience years ago with both 6.9 and 7.3 crew cab dually trucks. The 7.3 was a 91 model and a little nicer on the road simply because it had an overdrive transmission. The 6.9 was in a 86 model a 3 speed with 4.10's and was all done around 60mph. Both ran great and the 6.9 had close to 200,000 on it at the time.

I think a later 7.3 powerstroke would be a nice as well, not too sure what electronics are involved there.

I really hope this swap isn't scaring some people off. Some of the things I am doing can be done differently, easier, or really not at all.

LJ-TJ · February 13, 2013, 04:14 PM

Hey your doing great don't fail me now. We're with you so far. Do'n a sweet job. Keep up the good work.

vegas39 · February 13, 2013, 07:12 PM

Quote from: Wantawinnie on February 13, 2013, 04:00 PM
Thanks, I would like to see someone do a 6.9/7.3 conversion. I've had some experience years ago with both 6.9 and 7.3 crew cab dually trucks. The 7.3 was a 91 model and a little nicer on the road simply because it had an overdrive transmission. The 6.9 was in a 86 model a 3 speed with 4.10's and was all done around 60mph. Both ran great and the 6.9 had close to 200,000 on it at the time.

I think a later 7.3 powerstroke would be a nice as well, not too sure what electronics are involved there.

I really hope this swap isn't scaring some people off. Some of the things I am doing can be done differently, easier, or really not at all.

Yeah, powerstroke would be cool but as you say, the electronics would be tough and I think thats what ruins a diesels dependability. I love having an engine that runs off of one wire!

My main truck has the 3 speed auto with 3:55's, not much better than the 4:10 setup. I was considering doing an E4OD swap into it but thats at the bottom of my list. A friend in California offered me a Gearvendors unit for 400 bucks and it already has the C6 tailpiece for it but I would have to buy the control unit for it. Saw some on ebay for around 300 bucks.

I absolutely love classic winnies and older diesel engines, what you're doing is one of the most awsome projects anybody could take on! Of course a person has to be the right type of breed to appreciate this sort of thing.

vegas39 · February 19, 2013, 06:38 PM

Any more on the project? I know its gotta be getting close to running. I'm like a little kid under the Christmas tree, I keep checking this thread several times a day but nothing new lately!

Wantawinnie · February 19, 2013, 08:41 PM

I'm out of town on vacation so the Winnie is on hold for a little while.

LJ-TJ · February 19, 2013, 10:28 PM

Holiday say what! On hold! What are we suppose to do? You can't go on holidays and leave us hanging. Nuts. D:oH!

ClydesdaleKevin · March 06, 2013, 11:07 PM

Where's the Beef?... :)rotflmao

Come on! You are leaving us in WAY to much suspense!

Kev

Wantawinnie · March 07, 2013, 11:32 PM

Sorry boys, I am back home but mother nature keeps dropping snowstorms and cold temps on us. It is supposed to start warming up soon. Don't worry, I want this thing running almost as bad as you guys.

I finished up a punch list of things to complete last night, only a page and a half of legal size paper items to go!

Wantawinnie · March 11, 2013, 11:06 AM

Finished up the exhaust yesterday. Had to make some brackets to mount off the frame and used universal hangers and clamps. For the muffler and pipe connections I used stainless band clamps. They cost a little more but sure make a nice and removeable connection.

After that I started working on getting my underbody transmission cooler installed. This is a factory under bed mounted Dodge unit out of a 1992 Cummins that is self contained with its own wiring and thermostat.

Needs a little cleaning but otherwise a real nice piece from California.

I mounted it to the side and rear of the transmission as there is no room closer to the front. The Cummins uses 1/2" lines for cooling, anybody have a source for that? I was thinking of just using rubber hose rated for transmissions. It will need to run up front to an additional cooler that will be in front of the radiator.

I also started working out the air intake. I am using the original round Dodge air cleaner and filter. It will be modified a little to increase the airflow. My plan is to put it in this location in order to draw fresh air from the grill area. It will conflict with the radiator overflow tank so that will need to go. I do have a question on those. Does the location really matter as long as it is below the top of the tank? I've got a square tank off another Winnebago that will fit much better and it is in a totally different location up near the top of the radiator tank.

Froggy1936 · March 11, 2013, 12:43 PM

Hi I do not think they have to be below the top of the top radiator tank On my 1977 chev the overflow tank is mounted on the firewall as high as they could get it its hooked to the rad at the overflow hole where the cap opens Frank

Wantawinnie · March 11, 2013, 12:50 PM

Thanks, I was hoping I could move it to a better place. The earlier cars and trucks just let it drip out on the ground but I would rather not do that.

Wantawinnie · March 18, 2013, 11:48 PM

Made the plunge last week and ordered a lot of parts including some bling to keep an eye on the vitals. The bling are Autometer GS gauges and go pretty well with the original gauges in the Chieftain. Trans temp, boost, and pyrometer for now. The pyrometer measures exhaust gas temperatures in the manifold. Factory gauges still function for oil pressure and engine temperature. I am hoping to use the original tachometer with the use of a converter from Dakota Digital down the road.

Going to find a place to mount them in these pods somewhere convenient without poking holes in the mint dashpad.

Optional factory gauges I was trying to match up with.

Along with these I also got the driveshaft done with a new carrier bearing and a new 1350 joint to match up with the Gear Vendor unit. Installed this yesterday. It came out of my D24 parts rig. Other than the new 1350 joint change it was a perfect fit in the D28 with the engine, transmission, and Gear Vendor setup.

Also, removed the radiator overflow tank, slid the original air cleaner assembly from the 1989 Dodge in, and it bolted right in to a factory frame hole. There is a metal catch on the top that still needs to be mounted but it is sitting where it will be. I will being doing some mods to the air cleaner to improve airflow and also pull clean air from the grill area because I don't want dust from the wheel well getting in. With that in place I ordered up some connectors and aluminum tubing to build the intake tube from Silicone Intakes. I've also got a big 10" X 13" X 2" thick tranny cooler with 1/2" ports and two electric engine fans on the way from them as well. A Hayden temperature switch will be controlling those.

The underbed tranny cooler with fan is finished being mounted under the frame to the driver side of the Gear Vendor unit. It was the only place with enough room in reach of the battery for power and close to the transmission ports. I will be running 1/2" barb fittings off the transmission to 1/2" rubber transmission line, from there to the front cooler, and then back to the frame cooler before heading back in the trans.

I'll keep plugging away......

Lefty · March 19, 2013, 01:34 AM

To say I'm impressed would be an understatement.
Not only do you have an extremely rare rig, but you are upgrading the mechanicals far beyond any Ive seen done so far. (with the possible exception of the former member who stuffed a gorgeously chromed 440 into a D-18 Shorty.. or the guy who had that D21 converted to 4WD)

Seriously, dang nice work... I'd hate to see your final talley of the money you've spent on it when you get it finished (I'm lying.. we expect a full, detailed report!! lol), but you are sure headed in a direction that will end with one fine rig.