Need Mopar 360 block and head Casting info help

Clueless Boomer · May 03, 2013, 07:16 PM

Can someone provide me with info on block & head casting #'s for Dodge 360-2 & 360-3 engines? I noticed that Larry060748 has a 360-3 and Dougs23rb lists a 360-2 engine. I need to specify the correct engine casting #'s to a remanufacturer so he can rebuild with the right core block. This will become an upgrade to my 1973 D-18 Brave's original 318...rest its soul.

I understand from a Mopar forum that the final 4 digits in an engine casting # above the starter on the driver's side tells the engine size and core # used i.e.: 417993-360-2. But there's also an engine ID # stamped just below the block/head joint on the driver's side front of the engine of 11 digits, i.e.: 8W 360 11 3654. The 8=1978, the W= engine plant, the 360= engine size,
and the rest is a sequential manufacturing date system and maybe a engine serial # section that synchs with the VIN??

So...is it just the "core digit" in the engine casting number that he needs to look for to identify the 360-2 or -3? I believe that the oil sump location within the pan is another identifier (van=front, car=center, truck=rear) if a pan is still attached.

These casting #'s are my IMMEDIATE ASAP need to get my poor Winnie rolling toward its destination. Beyond that issue, can anyone verify what I'm reading about exhaust valve rotators being mounted on 360-2 & a chrome alloy cast iron block on the -3? How about the hearsay of stellite valves, finer grade casting of crankshaft or induction-hardening of journals? See link to moparchat.com @ http://www.moparchat.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-4922.html
Any answers, especially on the engine casting #'s would be much appreciated.

bluebird · May 03, 2013, 07:19 PM

I can't give you casting numbers but the cylinder heads for a truck are different than a car. I built a 360 for a 82 ramcharger back in 86. The machinist that did the head work for me explained the car heads had larger valves with less material so they would be apt to crack if used in a hard pulling truck. I was pulling a 4 place snowmobile trailer with it and opted for the smaller valve truck heads. They were hard to find back then, I'll bet almost impossible to find now a days.

I will say the 360 has a lot more guts than the 318 I replaced. I also had a 78 Minni Winney back in the mid 80s that I rebuilt the 360 in. Try to run as much timing as you can to keep from warping the exhaust manifolds. I was in a camp ground out in Penn. and a fellow came in that evening with a very loud Winny about like mine. He had pushed his coach so hard he had melted the left hand manifold. He had one heck of a mess, and was very lucky to make it in that night.

Clueless Boomer · May 03, 2013, 07:20 PM

Thanks, bluebird5750â€"â€"
Knew there had to be a horror story out there to caution me against settling for any run-of-the-mill Dodge 360. I should have mentioned that I'm looking for the earlier LA 360 engine #'s, not the Magnum version. After that melted manifold story, hopefully somebody knows head casting #'s so I can check for a match with the correct 360-3 heads as well.

DaveVA78Chieftain · May 03, 2013, 07:20 PM

Not sure about casting numbers but I can provide the following information from the 78-79 Dodge MH Service Manual

360-3 is considered to be a HD engine
76-77 Exhaust valves are stellite faced and have positive rotators.
78-79 Exhaust valves are not stellite faced but have positive rotators.
Different exhaust valve P/N for the 2 year sets.

It would appear you are going to have to decide on a year (see what the rebuilder has available) then go from there.

Not sure if you seen this information or not: http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=20
THe truck/Industrial section is at the back of the first link pdf.

Dave

Clueless Boomer · May 03, 2013, 07:21 PM

Thanks a ton, DaveVA78Chieftain. I think your mymopar.com link is exactly what I've been google-searching for these past 24 hours, including on your same site. I couldn't find a single list that specified "truck" applications until your link's pdf. I've located a 360 engine that was test run and then pulled from a 1978 RV. Now, thanks to you, I've got engine casting #'s to check this block against.

It was destined to be dropped into their forklift until it didn't match up with their machine's industrial crank (flywheel, transmission?) But, thank goodness, it didn't. And I found it in the remanufacturer's hometown to boot. Is it bad karma to say that this must be good karma? Thanks, Dave, your input was huge!

bluebird · May 03, 2013, 07:21 PM

Don't know if I'd be real concerned with the block itself as I would be with the heads, and camshaft they put in it when rebuilt. I'd also make sure of the rotaters on the exhaust valves. My 78 Winney had a large 2 barrel carb if I remember right. I ended up with a quadrajet on my ramcharger. I had 32x1100 tires and 4.10 gears in it and it pulled the 4 place trailer with ease, and did 12 mpg doing it. I believe if I were doing a 360 for a MH application I'd use some type of 4 barrel. I'd use a quadrajet again, because I like them and they provide decent mpg when working correctly. Holleys are the easiest but also provide the least in mpg, in my 02. I do run Holleys on my race car, because I need the ease of tuning on race day.

DELTA912 · May 03, 2013, 08:52 PM

When I can get too my 360's i'll post the numbers on here.. The one in the RV now is toast, but my replacement 360 is A OK!

Clueless Boomer · May 04, 2013, 01:47 PM

That could still be helpful, DELTA912, even though I pulled the trigger (long-distance) on that engine. It's got one of two potential correct truck block #'s listed on the Mopar Drivetrain # list. It also has a rear oil pan sump, which should make it a 360-2 or 360-3. The other key identifiers of the rarer of two main truck engines are a K as the 5th digit of the VIN (but my engine came w/o its motor home.) The last two keys appear to be head casting #â€"â€"which is under valve covers along the intake runnerâ€"â€"and spark plug thread diameter which, I think, is 18mm rather than 14mm. Any #'s or info that anyone can pass along on their 360-3's would add another piece to the puzzle.

On the subject of heads, bluebird 5750, checking that casting # is my next question for the seller. This engine has a 2-bbl intake manifold and a 2-bbl carb that's missing in action right now. Do you recall whether you mounted your Quadrajet on an optional Dodge 4-bbl intake manifold or an aftermarket version? Us newbies can benefit from all the insights we can pry out of all the experienced hands on this site. Thanks for your help in getting us closer to up and running with a new/old motor.

bluebird · May 04, 2013, 06:06 PM

I used a cast iron dodge manifold, no adapter was needed. I sent one to the scrap yard last summer when cleaning out my shed. I had to start parting with some of my older parts. Had a heart attack in sept 2010, and don't want to leave this for my wife to do after I'm gone. I gave away a couple 727, and 700r4 trans too. If you can't find a cast iron , you can use a Edelbrock performer, they are pretty good, but I don't remember what carb they were made for.

Clueless Boomer · May 08, 2013, 11:58 AM

Hey, bluebird5750â€"â€"sorry for the delay responding, but I'm still trying to nail down the correct engine & head casting #'s for the 360-3 I'll be rebuilding. I've made inquiries on classicwinnebagos and a couple more forums to ask people to post their 360-3 engine casting #. The engine I bought (out of a 27 foot RV) seems to have smog-fitted heads on a pre-smog block #. But if it's as sound as they say, it can be swapped for another core to rebuild. All I have to figure out is which engine/head casting #'s to ask them for.
I'm probably going to take you up on that Quadrajet 4 bbl refit idea. I've got part #'s for a stock 4 bbl intake up to '74 year, but I'm not sure if that part # carries on to '78 or beyond. Heck, I don't even know what year engine it's bolting onto yet...or what mechanic is doing the bolting. 1st things 1st, I guess.
Anyhow, thanks again. Clueless Boomer

bluebird · May 08, 2013, 07:40 PM

Did the engine you bought come with exhaust manifolds? I was looking on e-bay the other evening and saw some manifolds on their site. There was a performer intake also pretty reasonable . Why did they pull the engine out of the MH? When you start looking for a quadrajet , just a little insight. Most chevys had recessed thermostat type chock where Pontiac/olds used what they call hot air, It pulled the heat from the cross over. Also get the newest one you can find that isn't computer controlled. Those will have a electrical on top center of the air horn. They started that in late 1980 on some vehicles.

Clueless Boomer · May 08, 2013, 10:53 PM

Hey, bluebird5750--the salvage yard pulled the engine to replace the one in their forklift, but crank or flywheel didn't fit. And no, this 360 didn't come w/ exhaust manifolds. The reason we went for an LA 360 is that it's supposed to be a direct bolt up to the trans & 318 exhaust manifold. Or, in our case, direct bolt up to the headers that mounted to the 318 in our Winnie. I'm thinking w/ headers we'll need to swap for some non-smog heads. I'm doubtful that the 2" oval pipes on our headers will be big enough to contain exhaust ports & the air-injection ports on these 360 smog heads. I can get our rebuilder to measure the exhaust port/air injection port span, but would you think it'll take non-smog heads to work w/ our headers? Without a manifold crossover, is there some way to rig a supply of hot air for the Quadrajet thermostat chock? Sorry it's getting so involved. I'll try to post a pic of this engine...

Oz · May 08, 2013, 11:26 PM

I'm not quite sure if you got the casting question answered yet or not(?)

i??

Clueless Boomer · May 09, 2013, 12:43 AM

Hey, Mark--thanks for your concern. I've narrowed it down to 2 or 3 truck #'s on DaveVA78Chieftain's list, but even that doesn't distinguish the 360-2 from the 360-3 engine. Here's what I've uncovered:
There are several ways to differentiate versions of 360 engines, including:
â€¢ VIN # (5^th digit = K on 360-3 version)
â€¢ oil sump location in the pan (van=front, car=center, truck=rear)
â€¢ 2 bbl vs. 4 bbl carburetor (360-3 has 2 bbl)
â€¢ presence or absence of A.I.R. (smog) in heads (360-3 has none??)
â€¢ EGR valve (360-3 has it)
â€¢ spark plug thread diametersâ€"â€"14mm vs. 18mm dia.on 360-3??
As you can guess from the ? marks, some of this is second-hand and inferred, not authoritative. I haven't managed to get anybody to post a bonafide 360-3 block casting number yet. The # on my engine at the rebuilder's is 4006830-360-?, one of the two truck #s listed that should be a pre-smog engine. Only thing is, this one's got smog heads, an EGR, and I don't know the plug thread diameter yet. The other gasoline-powered truck #'s 1989-1975 are 4045601 and 4179930 (w/ A.I.R.)(smog.) So it's complicated, and I still don't know conclusively. I'll post a pic for what it's worth...

bluebird · May 09, 2013, 06:25 PM

Are you planning on rebuilding that engine? If not, why don't you tap and use a threaded plug on the air port. seen lots of guys doing that on sbc smog manifolds. I believe you can drill a small hole in the hot air cross over on the manifold. I'd find a good carb first though. I think I used the same choke heater that was on the thermoquad, and carb from a chevy. Are they truck or car heads on that engine. Don't know Dodges as well as chevy, haven't had a Dodge since I sold my Winney in 89 or 90. Had quite a few in my early years, but memory isn't what it once was.

Clueless Boomer · May 10, 2013, 01:04 AM

I am going to rebuild one engineâ€"â€"either this one or swap this core for a 360-3. (Someone is checking their 360-3 block casting # for me tonight.)

I'll compare block & head casting #'s against DaveVA78Chieftain's truck & industrial casting #'s guide for a match. I'll swap these heads or else plug the air injection ports as you suggest.
So for conversion to a 4 bbl...re-fit Quadrajet from a Chevy (not from Dodge?) to stock Dodge or Edelbrock 4 bbl intake, add choke heater from thermoquad, andâ€"â€"sorry for my ignoranceâ€"â€"the source for hot air for choke heater has to be from hot air crossover on exhaust manifold? No way to rig hot air source from our set of headers? I think my son found Edelbrock intake manifold you mentioned on eBay. Thanks again, bluebird5750. Clueless Boomer

DaveVA78Chieftain · May 10, 2013, 12:57 PM

Just convert to an electric choke:
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/quadrajet-electric-choke;jsessionid=10E58594484615DCD2DD41CB37E1AACC

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/jet-201355/overview/

Dave

DELTA912 · May 10, 2013, 01:13 PM

Give me an hour or so and ill get the Numbers off the blocks. as well as the vin's for both respectively.

I need my java ya know?!?!?

P.S. My RV is in the back yard.. light rain and heavy wind for the past few days stopped me from going out sooner.Now it's a nice 80 something degree day. OH YA!

DELTA912 · May 10, 2013, 06:33 PM

My current Engine that's blown,

Make/Model :Dodge / Sportsman (Fiberglass)

VIN: F4CF5V046***

RV part: Family Wagon

Year:1975/76 (12/19/75)

Size: 22' (feet)

Block Number: 4006830 - 360 - 7 (6)

Sr Number: ? (will get after it's pulled)
__________________________________
Other DONNER RV.

Make/Model :Dodge / Sportsman

VIN: F34BF4V010***

RV part: Field & Stream

Year:1973/74 (11-73)

Size: 20' (feet)

Block Number: - 360 -

Sr Number: ?

bluebird · May 10, 2013, 06:52 PM

That choke kit that Dave posted would work slick on a Pontiac or olds carb. That way you won't have to drill the manifold.

Clueless Boomer · May 10, 2013, 07:07 PM

Hey, DELTA912â€"â€"
BIG-TIME thanks to you for your efforts digging up that engine block casting #.
As Mark S. said, good news is a specialty for you and your forum mates above, each lending their hands and expertise to get us newbies' poor Winnie back in one piece and on the road. The engine's due to ship on Tuesday (as long as they've got the right crank core to replace the one they discovered was bent.) We'll try to keep you posted, but now, on to that 4 bbl carburetor swap... Thanks to all!

Clueless Boomer