Anyone using "Safe Steer" system?

[Rickf1985]

You mentioned bearing type steering pivots? I have never seen them. Do you have a source, name or link? I replaced one of mine and then realized that it was grossly out of adjustment and it was not bad. I used the new one anyway.

[kattkisson]

Info on bearing bell crank pivots
Super steer P3032   292.00 and I am not clear as to whether this is for 2 or one but the picture shows one.

[DonD]

http://www.hendersonslineup.com/products/supersteer-bell-crank-p3032.html

[Stripe]

Wow, not cheap.  Glad tightening the steer box on mine did the job..

[Rickf1985]

Well, took a 200 mile trip and it was a hand full. It wanted to go straight for a while and then it would drift one way or the other and correction would be correct, correct, correct, DANG! go back, go back, go back. This would be in either direction so it is not a camber problem. Tires were even across the tread on temperature so it is not toe in. The only things left are caster or that steer safe. I blame the steer safe for the delayed correction and following overcorrection. I have driven a lot of vehicles with bad alignments and I know what bad caster feel like, you are always correcting, always floating around the road. BUT, the corrections happen as you make them. I am pretty sure the alignment shop will not touch it with that setup on it, I know when I was doing alignments I wouldn't. I would tell them to take it off or I would at their cost and they can put it back after I do the alignment but that will void the warranty. I always painted all the components after I did an alignment so I would know if it was tampered with for just that reason. I did a lot of 4X4 work and you can imagine the stuff that I saw under there.

[legomybago]

We had our p30 aligned with the steer safe installed, when we bought the rig, it pulled to the right pretty badly, they shimmed the right upper control arm, and swapped the steer tires around. It drives great now. We've put maybe 10K on it, still good. I do remember them scratching there heads trying to get it correct!

[Froggy1936]

Basicly Toe in & Camber (except in very extreme out of specs )will not cause a pull to either side .But will cause extreme wear of tires  Caster of different amounts on either side will cause a pull. Caster of exteme negative reading will cause very hard steering as Caster of extreme positive reading will cause wandering .A properly set up frt end should have slightly more negative caster ,To compensate for road crown . A bad tire (improperly made or with damaged cords/belts) Can cause pull or wandering. With any pulling problem eliminate tires first (by rotateing)  Frank 

[bluebird]

I would think that system would cause excessive wear on all the steering components.  Not all P30 chassis have a steering problem. My 80 Itasca was affected more than my Challenger by the big rigs if it was windy. But the Itasca was on a shorter wheelbase than the Challenger is. I've found if there is too much air in the tires and or the front air bags make a huge difference. 

[Rickf1985]

I was running 75 lbs in the tires all around and the front air bags. The front tires were at a fair temp after two hours of driving, the rears were a little too hot for my liking so I bumped them up to 80 lbs.. One thing I have not checked is the rear track rod since I have air ride suspension. If the bushings are soft that will cause problems. I doubt they are though since it only has 49,000 miles on it and no oil on the bushings so nothing to harm them. I will be getting it aligned and that way I will have a good starting point and will be able to eliminate a major problem area.

[bluebird]

I had to replace the bushings both front and rear on my coach last year and it only has 56000 on it now.

[Oz]

Can the seemingly not so Safe Steer system be removed or is it so integrated into the steering/suspension that it would take replacing all or most of the components to that of a non-Safe Steer configuration?

[legomybago]

Rick,
Maybe you have a bell crank binding, or some really dry ball joints, or ?? Our P30 turns with the wheels in the air (engine off), yes it is tight/hard to turn, but a girl can do it, before I replaced a couple of grease zurks on the front end, my girl friend had to turn the wheels hard to the left and right lock to lock so I could grease the front end.

We have a LARGE rear sway bar with air bags, front air bags with sway bar, and the big rigs dont effect it AT ALL on the highway. You still have to "drive" the old beast, but it does track good for being an 86'. Especially cruising the back road highways its really nice. Straight forward Interstate cruise control driving, you have your fairly, somewhat constant steering wheel correction going on, but thats normal for an older coach. IMO

With the two P30 chassi rigs I've owned, both with their basically "van" style front end coil sprung, a-arm-ball joint, dual bell cranks, steering/suspension set ups, neither one turned worth a sh*t when the engine dies!!....AND you dont have brakes either with there hydroboost system!!! My 36 foot Beaver coach weighing in at 18k had a large 18 wheeler truck style steering wheel, and that helps with dead weight steering...

I think the straight axle, leaf sprung front ends are the way to go on these beasts.

The 19.5 wheels/tires should have 90 to 100 psi in the steers and at least 80-90 in the rears. Your tires are probably rated at 110 psi max load?  i??

Im done rambling, hope you get it fixed!!

[Rickf1985]

Can the seemingly not so Safe Steer system be removed or is it so integrated into the steering/suspension that it would take replacing all or most of the components to that of a non-Safe Steer configuration?

Very easily removed, I am going to just remove the springs and drive it to see if there is any difference. I called about an alignment and that will set me back 200.00 but he said I could leave the set-up on there, he has worked around them before.

One bellcrank is new and the other is free and the ball joints are all good and lubed well. It is funny what I am hearing about tire pressures because I had put up a post before my trip asking what people were running and what I am hearing now is a lot different that what I heard then. Hm? Hm? My door sticker calls for 75 fronts and 65 rears. I had set them at 75 all around and feeling the sidewalls I could tell the rears needed more so I upped them to 80. I am amazed that the pressures need to be so much higher than the sticker. Yes the tires are rated at 110 lbs. BUT, that rating is at the maximum weight carrying capacity. The tires are labeled that way because they can be used on many applications. Car tires are the same way. Most 15 inch car tires are rated at 35 lbs pressure but the cars usually call for less.
There are charts out there for the major brands like Michelin that will give you the pressure for a given load.

[legomybago]

I remember your tire pressure post...I think we thought you had 16" wheels, at least I did i??  I think your doing fine with the pressures your running now, you could always weigh the rig front to rear and play with it more, but I wouldn't worry about it with 19.5's..Heavy duty stuff there

I know your cringing about putting anymore $ in to her, but the alignment shop is the way to go. Nothing worse than driving something big and heavy down the highway and fighting it the entire time...

You found out you have out-of-round wheels too right? Put those on the back axle for sure too..

[Rickf1985]

One of the round wheels was on the front and the other was an outer rear. It just happens to be the one they forgot to change the valve stem in so when I go back to get that done I will ask them to swap the bent front with the straight rear. I think they owe me that much. The biggest problem is that two of the four bent ones are bent circumferentially. (up and down bounce) You really feel them, you don't feel the others.

[kattkisson]

If you pull this system completely off you will see that it is made to favor centered driving.  It is a complex machining on the pivot.  If you decide to leave it off sell me the springs.  I can't help but think you have something else going on as it has not been anything but good to my rig.

[Rickf1985]

I would lay odds that those springs are hood springs off of something. Take a tape measure and a caliper to the junk yard and start checking. That pivot has me both intrigued and worried. There are three 5/16 bolts there, one is in the center and two at the outer ends. All are visibly bent. I can tell you that the amount of force exerted by those springs is way more than a 5/16 bolt should handle. I really need to pull it apart and see what is going on with it, may just need new hardware.

[Rickf1985]

The way they describe the system in the brochure is not how mine is acting. Somewhere I saw much more detailed instructions on installation. I may even have them in my paperwork. I will have to see if mine is installed correctly. The way they show it the steering should turn with little effort while on stands, mine sure doesn't! I also have to see if they are still in business and if so then inquire about the bent bolts on the pivots.

[Oz]

You can download the manual in the Member Area now... under "suspension".

[Stripe]

Under suspicion of what?

[Rickf1985]

I thought I would drag this back to the top since I have gotten some more done under there and found some interesting stuff out. I disconnected the safe steer springs and drove it without them to see what it would feel like. Well it pulled hard right just like before. I did notice that when I disconnected the springs they were much tighter on the drivers side than on the passengers side so I did some measuring, surprise, they were mounted off center on the drivers side. In the time since I have had this I have replaced the drivers side idler arm assembly, tightened the passengers side idler and put on a heavy duty stabilizer. Last night I decided to head out there with a tape measure and check the toe in and surprise.................... it was toed out 3/4"!!! I wonder why it was pulling and darting between lanes??? Got everything pulled back in to 1/16" toed in and it goes perfectly straight and no lane changes.

Here is my idea on the progression of what happened. The idler arm wore out and someone reset the toe adjustment to compensate, they just happened to set it when the idler was pushed out. The stabilizer wore out because that is what they do as a stock unit in about 5 miles. Now it is wandering all over the place due to the worn parts so someone says "hey, put this Safe Steer on there" and they did, but they installed it wrong so that did not help. At that point the owner died and it just sat until the widow sold it to me. I was told all it probably needed an alignment.
Now that I have a handle on the real problems I may re-install the Safe steer but do it correctly and then it may do it's job invisibly as it should.

[Oz]

Nothing like having to unravel that whole mess to get back to square one!